Human Resources Committee on June 6th, 2017

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

On housing, let's be clear, we have more than doubled the base funding last year, from $2.2 to $4.8 billion. We are adding $11.2 billion for the new housing strategy and are also adding $10.9 billion in new below-mortgage loans and guarantees. When combined with the renewal of operating agreements and health accords, it's a significant program.

How does it need to be profiled and delivered to accommodate an aging population?

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

The Canadian Medical Association has made recommendations along those lines. They have consulted Canadians, too. As I said earlier, 9 out of 10 senior Canadians say that housing is a number one priority and that they want to remain in their homes. They also want it to be affordable. That's the key here.

As we develop a national housing strategy, I'm encouraging the committee and all members of Parliament to make sure to advocate for a strong component of affordable and accessible housing, which will benefit a large portion of our seniors. We'll have an envelope nationally for a housing strategy, but we have to ensure with our advocacy that a large proportion of that would be directly related to affordability and accessibility for seniors. Currently, we have a lot of seniors housing that is not accessible. I've heard that much of that housing was built 20 or 30 years ago, and I've met quite a few seniors in my riding who are in apartment buildings with stairs and no elevator. They're seniors and they have to move.

It's very unfortunate that the current housing is not accessible to seniors. We have to find ways to adapt that. I would encourage all of us, when we look to our minister and the work that our parliamentary assistant, Adam Vaughan, has done on this file, to ensure that we have a large component that is affordable and accessible. I know from talking to our parliamentary assistant that this is a priority to look at, to make sure that it is accessible and affordable.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

I think I have time for one short question.

For the last 10 years we had debt without growth, so programs for seniors were stalled or cut.

How critical is it to invest in seniors programs, like housing, that not only deliver services but grow the economy and deliver new jobs as a way of making sure growth pays for new services for the economic vitality of Canada?

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

That is a good question.

I know that you work on the status of women committee. We've heard a lot about the infrastructure money that has been spent in the past, such as on roads and bridges, which are important to municipalities, but also infrastructure spending in social programs. When we look at affordable housing for seniors and at the infrastructure for that, it's important that we focus on social infrastructure. Supporting municipalities is crucial and supporting social infrastructure linked to affordable housing for seniors is also very important. I'm glad to say that we're moving in that direction and it's something that we need to continue, making sure that we advocate on behalf of seniors. Seniors deserve a better quality of life. Seniors deserve a respectable income for retirement so they can live in dignity and participate in society That's the key.

Finally, Mr. Chair, when we look at the seniors today we see that they want to participate, they want to be active, they want to be involved, and they want to contribute back to society. We, as members of Parliament and various organizations, have to find ways to channel that energy and experience and ensure that they support us in our decisions moving forward. As a priority, as a government, we have to balance a lot of different needs, but I strongly believe that we will be a better country if we focus and get our seniors more involved in providing a quality of life for them in retirement.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you, Marc.

On that note, we do have to suspend for a moment to allow the minister to come in.

Thank you very much.

Congratulations on your motion getting to this point. We look forward to studying this with you.

We'll suspend for just a few moments, guys.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Okay, everyone, we want to have as much time with the minister as possible, so let's come to order, please.

Welcome back.

It's my privilege and honour to welcome the Minister of Families, Children and Social Development, Jean-Yves Duclos. Thank you so much for being here today, sir.

I understand you're accompanied by Kathryn McDade, senior assistant deputy minister, income security and social development branch with ESDC. Welcome as well, and thank you for being here at the onset of what I expect to be a very fruitful study.

We just heard from the author of M-106, MP Marc Serré, and we're looking forward to hearing your perspective, sir. We're giving you the next 10 minutes to introduce.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Minister of Families]

Mr. Chair, committee members, thank you for giving me the pleasure and privilege of being with you this morning as you begin your study of how the government can support vulnerable seniors today.

As you pointed out, I am accompanied by Kathryn McDade, the senior assistant deputy minister, who will be pleased to provide any clarifications that are needed.

The study was prompted by the motion put forward by my colleague, Marc Serré, member of Parliament for Nickel Belt. We must commend him for his commitment to seniors and his interest in Canada's aging population.

His motion included a request that the committee study the development of a national seniors strategy and report back to the House. The government is as committed to seniors as I am, which is why we supported the motion inviting the Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities to undertake this study.

The protection of seniors in Canada is one of the main reasons I entered politics. Before I ran for office, I spent 23 years as a researcher and professor at Université Laval where Canada's aging population was one of my primary research interests.

As the members of this committee are aware, a few years ago the previous government decided to increase the age of eligibility for old age pensions from 65 to 67. I became worried because it appeared that the government at the time had conducted zero scientific studies on the effects of this change, especially on the most vulnerable seniors. The previous government appeared not to bother to count, and appeared not to bother to care.

I did what any economist would do: I went looking for the facts, and I put together a small research team that studied the likely impacts of that change to the age of eligibility. We found that the change would plunge 100,000 seniors, age 65 and 66, into severe poverty every year. This would have tripled the poverty rate of those seniors from 6% to 17%.

Elderly women would have been the most affected, with their median income dropping by a third. Vulnerable seniors would also have been the most affected by the change. They are the least able to protect themselves by adjusting their work and savings behaviour.

I thus entered politics to be a voice of advocacy for the aging population in Canada, so I am especially pleased with the work done by our colleague from northern Ontario, and with the collaboration of your committee, Mr. Chair, in undertaking a study of the well-being of Canadian seniors.

This topic is of great importance to me as the minister responsible for seniors, to our government, and I am sure for all parliamentarians.

The timing of your study aligns well with new data from the 2016 census that was recently released by Statistics Canada. The census shows that, from 2011 to 2016, the number of seniors grew by 20%, the largest increase since Confederation. By comparison, Canada's overall population grew by 5% during the same period.

Based on demographic projections, seniors will represent approximately 23% of the total population in 2031, up from 17% in 2016. These changes present both challenges and opportunities, and I expect that your study will be very helpful in that respect.

The government has been working to implement the seniors agenda to advance four primary policy objectives, namely, (a) improving seniors' access to affordable housing, (b) improving the income security of seniors, (c) promoting healthy aging and improving access to health care, and (d) fostering the social inclusion and engagement of seniors.

We believe—and I think you all believe—that all Canadians deserve access to housing that is safe, accessible, and affordable. Housing is a key aspect of building any inclusive society. Our government has therefore been very active in improving seniors' access to affordable housing. Through budget 2016 we invested $200 million over two years in the construction, repair, and adaptation of affordable housing for seniors. Budget 2017 further proposes to invest more than $11.2 billion over 10 years in the implementation of the first ever national housing strategy. This will help build, renew, and repair Canada's stock of affordable housing, and help ensure that Canadians, including seniors, have affordable housing that meets their needs and improves their lives and those of their communities.

I am looking forward to your deliberations and recommendations as we develop together a national housing strategy to re-establish federal leadership in housing, especially as it relates to the very important issue of housing for seniors. But that is only part of the solution. We must also tackle broader issues such as social inclusion and healthy aging. On this, I am especially pleased to learn that your committee will study this issue prior to the summer recess.

In the area of improving seniors' income security, the government has acted decisively. One of the first measures we implemented when we took office was to lower the age of eligibility for old age security and the guaranteed income supplement from 67 back to 65. We also increased the maximum amount of the guaranteed income supplement top-up by up to $947 per year for single seniors. This has improved the financial situation of close to 900,000 people and allowed approximately 13,000 Canadian seniors to exit poverty, the vast majority of whom are women.

We have also introduced legislation to ensure that couples receiving the guaranteed income supplement who are involuntarily forced to live apart are able to receive benefits based on their individual income. All Canadians should have access to a dignified and secure retirement. Looking ahead for tomorrow's seniors, we enacted legislative changes to enhance the Canada pension plan. The Canada pension plan enhancement will increase retirement benefits by increasing the replacement rate from one quarter to one third of pensionable earnings.

It will also increase the limits on pensionable earnings by 14%. This enhancement will be phased in over a seven-year period, beginning in 2019. Among other things, these changes will reduce the number of families at risk of income insecurity in retirement from 24% to 18%.

My colleague, the Honourable Jane Philpott, Minister of Health, leads our government's efforts with respect to healthy aging and access to health care, which form an important part of our seniors agenda. Under her leadership, the Government of Canada has advanced a number of initiatives benefiting seniors, ranging from new funding for provinces and territories to invest in home care, to advancing the implementation of age-friendly communities in Canada, to working with partners to address dementia. Of course, I encourage you to take a close look at these programs.

Finally, in support of our fourth policy objective of fostering the social inclusion and engagement of seniors, we are making investments that enable seniors to be active and independent and to fully contribute to the development of their communities.

For example, through the New Horizons for Seniors program, we are collaborating with local governments, institutions and organizations to reduce the social isolation of seniors and improve quality of life for Canadians.

Through the leadership of the Honourable Carla Qualtrough, Minister of Sport and Persons with Disabilities, the government is developing accessibility legislation that will remove barriers in areas of federal jurisdiction. This will help improve access and foster inclusion for all Canadians, including the elderly.

Our government also recognizes the critical role that many Canadians play in supporting family and friends with serious health conditions, disabilities or aging-related needs, often while balancing work and other personal responsibilities.

For this reason, budget 2017 commits nearly $700 million over five years for the creation of a new employment insurance caregiving benefit that will cover a broader range of situations where individuals are providing care to an adult family member.

We are also working to advance the work of the National Seniors Council. The council reports to both me and Minister Philpott on the challenges and opportunities related to the well-being and quality of life of seniors. The strength of the council lies in the expertise and experience of its members.

That's why, as terms of current members end, Minister Philpott and I will be using a new, open, transparent and merit-based appointment process to fill them. In fact, a call for nominations for both the chair and members of Council was launched on May 18.

In closing, through all the measures I have described, the government is seeking to improve the social and economic inclusion of seniors. We have taken significant steps, but of course there is much more to be done. So I trust that your report will contribute to the effectiveness of the government's actions in favour of our seniors.

Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you. I would be happy to answer any questions you have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you very much.

Up first, we have MP Warawa.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

Thank you, Minister. It's a treat to have you at the committee. There is such a thing as a good Liberal, and I would suggest that you are.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear!

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

You are well respected.

At the beginning of your comments, you said that the government is as committed to seniors as you are. I would suggest, or at least hope, that your commitment far exceeds what we have seen from the government at this point. I appreciate your commitment to help seniors.

As you know, we have a very quickly changing aging population in Canada. Right now it's one in six. In approximately six years it will be one in five, and in about 14 years it will be one in four. You highlighted that in your comments.

The vast majority of Canadian seniors would love to age in place, and the only practical and affordable way to take care of this aging population is to permit them to age in place. We cannot afford to build enough housing, and it would not be appropriate to warehouse our Canadian seniors. It's not what they want, and it's not what we can afford. We don't have enough time to build enough houses to house them. For all those reasons, we need to focus on aging in place.

In your comments, you shared that there is a national seniors housing strategy, which is going to include some housing for seniors—and we do need to provide some more housing for end-of-life care, palliative care, hospice care. We need those extra beds for that, but a major focus needs to be on providing home care.

You touched on that. You said that the Minister of Health included investment in home care in the negotiations and agreements with the provinces and territories, so that's a question on that. Then I have one for you on access and the Minister of Sport.

Could you provide details about what the government is going to do to ensure that we have home care that meets the needs of an aging population? Is that going to include a number of new people with training in geriatrics and palliative care to provide that home care? Is that part of the agreement with the provinces?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Thank you, Mark. It's always a pleasure to receive such questions, not only of deep value but also of deep concern for our seniors.

I entirely share your view as to the circumstances and the will of our seniors. In most cases, our seniors want to age at home, and that's why it is so important to look after all of their needs, which would ensure that they have the ability to stay at home.

In that context, as you said, housing is a key issue. We are, of course, going to make progress over time. Housing takes time to renovate and to construct, so the impact will be seen over a relatively long time period. As you also signal, when it comes to aging with dignity and security, housing makes sense when services are also offered. Proper health care services matter a great deal. The investments the government is making in supporting provinces and territories in providing home care will make a difference and will provide the type of support that you rightly mention.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

Do I have another couple of minutes?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

You have almost two minutes.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

Thank you.

In your presentation, you mentioned the Minister of Sport and Persons with Disabilities and that the government is developing accessibility legislation. One of the number one causes of shortness of life and injury to seniors is accessibility so that they can age in place. If they fall, there's the likelihood of their breaking their hip and getting pneumonia, and then their life ends very quickly. Accessibility is critical, such as a ramp to the front of a home, particularly after a stroke. You would have an occupational therapist assess where they're living and how to make that home liveable so that they can age in place.

When will you be introducing that accessibility legislation in the House? This all needs to happen fairly quickly, and to be honest, I'm disappointed that it took a year and a half for us to even have the discussion we're having today. This all needs to move very quickly. When are we going to have the legislation that you referred to in your speech?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Thank you again.

As we know, this is going to be the first ever federal accessibility legislation. We all look forward to it and are eager to see it put in place. I would like to give you a more precise timeline. I would prefer to delegate that to my colleague Minister Qualtrough who would be better informed than I am on the precise timing of the law.

That said, we all agree that accessibility matters for all Canadians, and in particular, again, for seniors. As you rightly stressed, our seniors age in different manners. In many cases, they require adaptation to their housing in order for them to stay at home and to live well.

I expect the accessibility legislation to make a key difference in the lives of many of our seniors and to achieve exactly those objectives. On the details of the timeline, again I would delegate to my colleague.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

As one quick point, I would suggest that if there were a minister for seniors, as there is for youth, we would have better guidance and a stronger voice in the government. I continue to ask for, and actually most Canadians would like to see, a minister for seniors.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you, Mark.

Now we'll go to MP Long, please.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister Duclos, for coming in and presenting to us today. Thank you so much for your leadership and your passion and the direction that you're giving the government with respect to those living in poverty. Obviously, today we're talking about seniors.

We have an issue across this country and we have a challenge, but with every challenge comes opportunity. I was reading up on it last night, and the statistics are no surprise, that for the first time in our history, I think, we have more people—5.9 million, in fact—of senior age versus those aged 14 and under at 5.8 million people. As a side number, there are 8,230 Canadians over the age of 100. Those numbers are startling.

With an increasing seniors' population.... In particular, I come from the riding of Saint John—Rothesay in Atlantic Canada, where we have the highest percentage of seniors in Canada, at 20%. If you look at that versus, say, the west coast, and Alberta at 12%, we have our challenges in Atlantic Canada.

It was a learning curve and a learning process for me in 2015, and certainly one of the things I learned going door to door and talking with seniors was how they did feel forgotten, how they were concerned about the change in the eligibility age from 65 to 67. I used to talk to a lot of seniors about what they felt had happened or what is out there from a government perspective to benefit them. A lot of people talked about, or certainly the previous government talked about, the tax-free savings account. I talked to many seniors certainly in Saint John and those living in poverty, and they didn't invest in the tax-free savings account; they didn't have any money to invest in such an account.

First and foremost, minister, from a government perspective on budget 2016-17, can you elaborate on the steps that our government has taken to change the lives of seniors and to pull seniors out of poverty and provide a better life?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Thank you, Wayne.

I don't want to be too focused on your own work, knowing that everyone's work around the table matters immensely, but I've had the good fortune of seeing you in action in your riding, and I have seen your passion and your compassion for those Canadians who need better health and better support when it comes to being and doing well.

Coming back to the change in the age of eligibility, we all know the importance of the challenges and the opportunities for an aging society and aging population. There are ways to improve the living conditions of our senior citizens as well as their savings and work behaviours. However, this must be done with great care and with appropriate sensitivity to the well-being of the more vulnerable seniors. When that change was made—and I'm saying this with complete transparency—unfortunately, too little evidence was produced on the adverse impacts it was going to have on our more vulnerable seniors. The seniors who would be the most affected by this change in the age of eligibility would have had the least ability to protect themselves through changing their work and savings behaviour while enduring the greatest impact.

Just to give you two figures, the top 20% of those seniors, aged 65 and 66, would have lost 5% of their income. The bottom 20% of those seniors would have lost 35% of their income. The men in the median of that age category would have lost about 10% of their income. The women in the median would have lost 33% of their income, and that's because women in that age group are more vulnerable than men. A social sensitivity lens would have been useful in that debate before thinking of implementing such a dramatic change that would, again, have plunged 100,000 seniors into severe poverty.

I think it was important to recognize this very early in our mandate, which we did by changing the age to 65.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you for that, Minister.

Certainly one thing that I was very proud to advocate for, and tell people door-to-door in Saint John—Rothesay, was the 10% increase in the GIS for single seniors living in poverty.

Can you elaborate to the committee how many seniors it affected?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Make it a brief answer, please.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

The overall impact is up to $950 per year for each of these 900,000 seniors. For some of us around the room, $950 might seem a relatively modest amount, but when you live in very severe economic circumstances as a vulnerable, single senior does, that makes a big difference. The impact, as I said, is that 13,000 vulnerable seniors were taken out of poverty. Again, the vast majority—90%—of these seniors are vulnerable women, so the gender lens when it comes to seniors is very important. Not only are there more women, they also happen to live longer, and they often find themselves in more vulnerable economic and social circumstances.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you very much, Minister.

Now, for six minutes, we'll have MP Blaney, please.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you so much.

Thank you, Minister, it's very nice to have you here to talk about this very important issue.

I have the honour of representing North Island—Powell River, which is a very large riding with many rural and remote communities. Today, as I listen, I can't help but think about Sayward, with a population of 340 people who have created a volunteer program so they can have health services provided in their community. They now organize everything so the nurse can come into the community and do that work.

A lot of seniors across Canada are now at a stage where they may be very vulnerable economically, but at the same time, they're having to step up to the plate to care for a loved one, a partner, or to organize something like they have in Sayward. I hope we all remember that in this place when we discuss the importance of having a national seniors strategy.

You talked about four priorities in your report, but are you moving toward a national seniors strategy?