Human Resources Committee on June 8th, 2017

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Fair enough.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you.

MP Dhillon, please, for six minutes.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Thank you for coming and testifying before us today.

My first question is for Corrections Canada. According to a study conducted by the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, the proportion of aging or older offenders, usually defined as those who are over the age of 50, has increased sharply since 2006 and is expected to increase further over the next few years. What are the reasons for the increase in the aging population in the custody of Correctional Services Canada?

[Don Head]

One of the main reasons for the increase in the number of offenders aging in the institutions is due to the length of sentence. In fact, 47% of those over 50 are serving an indeterminate sentence, a life sentence. They continue to be under our care for the rest of their natural life, whether it's in the institution or out under supervision. As those individuals serve through a life sentence, reach that mark of 50, and continue on, those numbers increase for us. We've also seen situations where historical crimes have been solved and individuals coming into the system are older than when they committed the crime, so there's some relationship there as well.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Do you know if the majority of those are aboriginal or of aboriginal descent?

[Don Head]

Yes. They represent a small number of those 50 and older. Similar to the presentation that was made earlier in terms of the aging of the aboriginal offender population, we do not see the same number of aboriginal offenders who are as old as non-aboriginal offenders.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Would you be able to send us this information?

[Don Head]

Most definitely.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Thank you.

I'm sharing my time with MP Di Iorio.

[Nicola Di Iorio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Thank you, esteemed colleague.

Everybody in this room is becoming, obviously at different rates, a senior. My question is asked for everybody in this room and everybody we interact with in a regular day. I'll ask my question first and I'll expand a bit later.

It appears to me that when we become seniors, not much is expected of us. We are part of society currently. We're all part of society. We will continue to be part of society. We were raised and evolved with the fact that something is expected of us, and we make a contribution, to a variety of degrees.

My question is mostly directed to Madame Romano and Madame Milroy Swainson, and to some extent to Mr. Head also, and the two others if they want to participate. As I said, we'll all become seniors at some point. What work do you do in that respect? Obviously, human beings have to be dynamized. We have to face something that makes us get up in the morning and gives us a positive outlook on life, to whatever means we may possess.

My mother is 85 years old. She still works. She's a volunteer, but she gets up in the morning and she has a lot of things that keep her busy and keep her going. She has illnesses. She has some medical conditions that she has to address.

[Anna Romano]

You've actually very eloquently articulated the vision that we have at public health in terms of healthy aging and what that means. It absolutely means being able to contribute and living optimally at all stages of life, including later in life. In terms of something concrete, going back to the concept of an age-friendly community, it really does capture that notion that seniors do have lots to contribute. Unless they can actually get to the community centre to do the volunteer work, or are aware of activities within their community that they can participate in, then it's a waste of their talent, wisdom, and contributions that they can make in that community.

[Nicola Di Iorio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

To Madame Milroy Swainson, Kaiser Wilhelm II was told after the First World War that people wanted to have pensions. He said, “Sure, we'll give them pensions. At what age do they die?” They said, “Well, they die at 65.” He said, “So fine, from 65 on we'll give them a pension.” That's how the age 65 was determined. That was the life expectancy, the upper end of life expectancy. Obviously, now life expectancy has increased a lot. Should we review our model?

[Nancy Milroy Swainson]

I think you're absolutely right. I agree with Anna from the Public Health Agency of Canada. We do know that seniors have a contribution to make well past the age of 65, whether it is in the paid labour market—and we're doing things to support their engagement in the paid labour market—or whether it's volunteerism. Seniors devote a lot of time to volunteer activities. The community relies on that work, so we certainly support that. There's caregiving as well. Seniors provide a great deal of support to family members, whether spouses or friends and family, and all of those are important to be supported.

The one thing I'll mention and that I did reference is the new horizons for seniors program, which has been commented upon. We absolutely use that program to support the social engagement, the continued partnership of seniors in communities. Whether they're involved in mentoring programs, whether they're involved in raising awareness for initiatives to remain engaged, whether they're supporting volunteer initiatives, that particular program is critical for continued engagement of seniors.

At the same time, in addition to supporting them to engage themselves, we're trying to raise awareness on issues that might prevent their full participation. In reference to elder abuse, the new horizons for seniors program has invested a great deal in elder abuse awareness, and wants to support awareness about how it's not acceptable. It needs to be addressed. You want to provide seniors with safe environments to participate, engage, provide care, and so on.

Absolutely, the door doesn't close at age 65. There are lots of contributions that people could make after that age.

[Nicola Di Iorio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Thank you, and I want to thank every one of you for your participation and the work that you do on behalf of Canadians.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you.

Now over to MP Vecchio.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Thank you very much.

CMHC, I just want to start with you, tagging on to the question by MP Warawa. He was talking about the rehabilitation of homes, and I want to see if the residential rehabilitation assistance program, RRAP, still exists, and if so, how much additional money was put into the 2016 or 2017 budget?

[Luisa Atkinson]

I don't believe it does exist any further. It's a program that is offered for first nations only, at this point, but through the investments in affordable housing, which is joint with the provinces and territories, the provinces have the flexibility to design and deliver their programs—

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Is there more money available, then, for those rehabilitation programs, less money available, or about the same?

[Luisa Atkinson]

I would say that there was an increase with budget 2016 in terms of affordable housing that includes renovations and rehabilitation.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

I dealt with that program for many years. On April 1 it would open, and on July 1 it would close because there was no more money left. There was more money being put into it, so I want to make sure that program is still available, but it's just changed. It's flowed into a different system.

[Luisa Atkinson]

It's changed, exactly.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Moving on to Lyse, thank you very much for coming in today. You were talking about RRAP, so this is something that will go on to that.

One of the things we talk very often about is transparency and accountability when it comes to first nations. We've heard the horrific stories about Attawapiskat and all those sorts of things. When it comes to transparency on housing, I think it's extremely important that we continue to invest, but I also want to make sure that those investments are being properly used.

Do we have an analysis of that information that comes back, or an audit of the program that is specifically earmarked for housing?

[Lyse Langevin]

It is an interesting topic. The dollars are allocated to the first nations, and they are responsible for managing their own finances.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Yes, but is there anything to learn that earmarked money for housing is getting to exactly where it needs to go?

[Lyse Langevin]

For the budget 2016 dollars, yes, there are mechanisms in the contribution agreements, for example, for a certificate of construction and so on.