Evidence of meeting #7 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was unions.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
April 18th, 2016 / 4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Yves Robillard Liberal Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
Good afternoon to all of you. Thank you for joining us today.
My special thanks go to our interpretation service; we never thank them enough.
My question goes to you, Mr. Fanelli. Can you tell us whether your organization supports the invasive declarations that Bill C-377 gives rise to?
4:20 p.m.
Vice-President and Manager of Labour Relations, Industrial Contractors Association of Canada
When you say “invasive declarations”, be specific. What do you mean, the reporting requirements?
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bryan May
Sorry, can you repeat that? I don't believe Monsieur Robillard had the translation on.
4:20 p.m.
Vice-President and Manager of Labour Relations, Industrial Contractors Association of Canada
He asked me a question about invasive requirements. What are we referring to, just the reporting requirements?
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Dan Ruimy Liberal Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC
I'll just translate for Mr. Robillard.
Coming back to Bill C-377, in your opinion, how invasive do you find the reporting that we're talking about?
4:20 p.m.
Vice-President and Manager of Labour Relations, Industrial Contractors Association of Canada
Very invasive. It's digging into organizations or parts of organizations that are connected to unions, which also affect employers, which creates not only the reporting aspect but the costs associated with that.
So yes, I'm opposed to that. Absolutely.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Yves Robillard Liberal Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
Good.
What is your opinion about Bill C-377, as the representative of an employers' group and as the vice-president of one of the largest engineering and construction companies in Canada?
4:20 p.m.
Vice-President and Manager of Labour Relations, Industrial Contractors Association of Canada
My position, on behalf of the employers I represent, is that we are opposed to Bill C-377. We were opposed from the time it was first brought forward. Our position has not changed.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
Filomena Tassi Liberal Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Kelly, I've heard you say a number of times through this presentation that your concern is with respect to these mandatory dues. That's really where your concern lies.
If I'm following this right, you're supporting Bill C-525. You like that because in fact it makes it harder for unions to unionize. That's what I'm hearing you say. You're saying that you don't like the mandatory dues, so you support Bill C-525, because it makes it harder to unionize, so that members in the union do not have to pay the dues.
4:25 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Federation of Independent Business
Not at all. In our support of Bill C-525, we're certainly not suggesting that all people in the prospective bargaining unit be allowed to have a vote as to whether or not they wish to be union. Now, certainly we would ideally wish that this becomes voluntary for everybody there, but at the very least, even in the current construct in Canada, as happens in the majority of provinces, we believe there is no better democratic procedure than to have a secret ballot vote so that there can be no intimidation either way, from the employer to the employee or from the union to the employee, to sign a card.
We don't elect you by having a show of hands in your riding. We elect you through a secret ballot vote. We believe union certification is another important decision.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
Filomena Tassi Liberal Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON
My time is limited, so if I can just get to the point. That doesn't get to your concern, which has to do with the pain of the...and some sort of suggestion that you could have an opting out of union dues. I have no idea how that would function in any organization because you have a collective group who are trying to come together and work together, and to have some opting in and some opting out, who gets to vote, to me I think it's far-fetched to suggest that.
4:25 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Federation of Independent Business
Except that it does exist in every other country in the world.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
Filomena Tassi Liberal Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON
I think here it's evident that it goes against the organization of unions.
With respect to this question both to FECTO and CFIB, were both of you aware that at the same time the former labour minister, Minister Leitch, was supporting Bill C-525, she had academic research from her own department that concluded mandatory vote would decrease unionization but chose not to make it public. Independent researchers, including Sara Slinn, who's appearing in our next panel, concluded through their research that mandatory vote systems facilitate more worker coercion by employers than coercion by unions of workers by card check.
How do you reconcile that with your support of Bill CC-525?
4:25 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Federation of Independent Business
Unions will always suggest that a secret ballot vote will allow employers to intimidate employees against certification. I don't know how that is possible.
Having debated this very issue at provincial governments for decades, I don't disagree with the point that some of the unions make, and that is a vote really should take place quickly after there has been a certification attempt to ensure there isn't a long period where the employer can come back and say, “You know what? If you guys vote to unionize, I'm going to shut the place down.”
I believe there should be some ability for the employer to share information to the employees. There is very close scrutiny in all of these votes from labour boards across Canada, including at the federal level, but a secret ballot vote is a fairly basic democratic right. I have to tell you if we're uncomfortable about it for unions, I don't understand how then we're comfortable using it for electing important people like you.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
Filomena Tassi Liberal Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON
With all due respect, it's not so much that as it is the process that takes place, marching the employees by the office of the person who's running the company....
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bryan May
Sorry, Filomena. That's your time.
We are running up to it. Do you have a very brief question? I can give you a couple of minutes.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Mark Warawa Conservative Langley—Aldergrove, BC
I think, Chair, I have four minutes, and Ms. Tassi took some of my time, but that's okay.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bryan May
You can have three. Let's do three. We have to recess for the next one so we're either going to carve into this time or carve into the next time.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Mark Warawa Conservative Langley—Aldergrove, BC
Thank you to the witnesses for coming here. I find it interesting that Mr. Ruimy would bring up an 82-page document with data. It's printed off in 82 pages. This is all electronically created. All these figures, the unions know these figures. It's not extra work to create these figures, but he holds up a document that is printed out in 82 pages.