Evidence of meeting #89 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was policy.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:20 p.m.
Chief Human Resources Officer, House of Commons
I do make sure that the investigator is acceptable to both parties and I have sometimes had to—without going into details—insist with some of these providers that a person be of a certain gender or maybe be knowledgeable about certain cultures. That is something we do think about.
If there were an objection to one investigator in particular, I would gladly change the investigator and go to a different provider.
4:20 p.m.
Director General, Business Support Services, Library of Parliament
We do use independent ones. Because we're smaller, we don't have a standing offer or supply arrangement, but we do go out and, based on knowledge, we might consult with the House of Commons, to look at their list of people and knowledge of other people. We've had very few cases that have required that, but yes, we ensure that they are impartial and neutral competent persons.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Julie Dabrusin Liberal Toronto—Danforth, ON
This is for you, Ms. Potter, specifically. You said that you put into place a resolution even if an investigation finds that the complaint about harassment was not a founded claim. Can you explain to me how that works? How would you be imposing or putting into place a resolution if there wasn't a founded claim?
4:20 p.m.
Director General, Business Support Services, Library of Parliament
It's all about there being a conflict that can be resolved. Somebody may have alleged harassment even if harassment is not then found. Obviously, there is still a problem either in the workplace or between the parties, and this is where we will explore further and look at facilitation, coaching, or mediation to try to get the parties....
We don't just say, “Sorry, it's not founded. Here's the report and we're done.” We like to take it further, because obviously something brought about this case in which there was alleged harassment. We look at whether there is something in the workplace, whether there is something that can be done, or whether there is a conflict. We try to look at solutions that way and talk to both parties about how we can help to resolve that.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Julie Dabrusin Liberal Toronto—Danforth, ON
You define that as providing support in the workplace situations?
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Julie Dabrusin Liberal Toronto—Danforth, ON
I see you nodding, Mr. Parent. Is there something similar?
4:20 p.m.
Chief Human Resources Officer, House of Commons
Yes, definitely, because even though you have a situation in which no harassment is found, you're facing a damaged workplace. If the employment relationship should continue, I think from an HR perspective, there should be some intervention to make sure that the workplace is repaired and to make sure that we're not creating another problem.
In our environment, it's probably easier. I've tried it in your environment a few times. It's a bit more tricky, but it does work. As I said, mediation can work miracles, and I've seen it work miracles, so that's an avenue that we try every time we can.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Julie Dabrusin Liberal Toronto—Danforth, ON
The legislation refers as well to providing support to the person who is a complainant. I'm wondering if you can add anything as to what types of supports an employer can provide in that circumstance, when the complainant comes forward, because that's one of the requirements here.
4:20 p.m.
Chief Human Resources Officer, House of Commons
Right now, as I said, we provide these services through the Finding Solutions Together program. We have resources available whether through that program or not. With the employee assistance program, I have two nurses on staff who can assist. We can look at additional counselling if it's deemed required. I'm lucky enough to have a lot of firepower working for me. If we see there is a need for an employee to have additional support, we'll arrange that through my staff.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Rosemarie Falk Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK
Thank you, guys, for coming today.
Ms. Potter, you mentioned the harassment prevention training. Is that something that's just encouraged or is it mandatory for new hires?
4:25 p.m.
Director General, Business Support Services, Library of Parliament
It is mandatory for all employees. We run training sessions twice a year for employees and for managers. We also run some tailored mandatory training for employees and managers who are working in a client-service context.
The whole point behind that is to speak about what harassment is, that it is not tolerated, that the support is there, that they can come to us if they are experiencing it, and that we are there to hear them and help and support them in any way they need. We're saying, “Speak up, talk to us. We are there. We are going to hear you, and we will take action.” That's the message coming out, but it's also to raise it. For us, education and awareness are what this prevention is about, namely to do as much of that as we possibly can.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Rosemarie Falk Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK
That's perfect.
You also mentioned dealing with a situation. If a situation has escalated and staff can't work together, if it hasn't been resolved for whatever reason, if they don't feel comfortable, what's the next step in the process? What if you do everything, you follow the process, but then there's no reconciliation or ability to comfort?
4:25 p.m.
Director General, Business Support Services, Library of Parliament
Do you mean after the formal complaint?
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
4:25 p.m.
Director of Human Resources, Library of Parliament
It's really case by case, depending on what the complaint was, where we're at in the process, and their ability to work together. We have to look at what's gone on and what other options we might have within the Library, perhaps assigning people to different places. It's case by case.
4:25 p.m.
Clerk of the House of Commons
Just to intervene briefly, there is a bit of a challenge. When we're talking about escalation of a situation inside the administration or inside the library, we're dealing with our employees. It's quite a different situation. We have, in some sense, the tools of control, if you like.
If it's a situation that has escalated inside a member's office, that becomes a different question altogether. It may be worthwhile exploring with Pierre what the next step would be, because it actually involves you. It's certainly not determined by us as managers of the administration. As an employer, you become a much more active player in working out a possible solution.
4:25 p.m.
Chief Human Resources Officer, House of Commons
This is a challenge I have lived in the past two years. As Mr. Robert mentioned, in our environment it's easy. We have 1,800 positions and we can shuffle people. However, in your environment, you're offices are small. You have your Ottawa office, and have your constituency office. If something is unworkable, it makes it very difficult.
It's a challenge for you as an employer, because at some point it's not necessarily a corporate responsibility. You are the corporation.
We've worked at times with the whips' offices to see if there are solutions. In Ottawa, it's easier, but in constituencies it's a bit harder. Sometimes we try to find creative solutions to resolve these problems.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Rosemarie Falk Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK
I have another question. You mentioned that mediation has worked in the past. Do you know of any repeat offences that have come up? In terms of a member's office, what would the direction be? How would it be handled?
4:25 p.m.
Chief Human Resources Officer, House of Commons
Fortunately, I haven't had too many repeat offenders, but it's always a challenge, especially depending on who the “offender” is. If it is the member, then maybe a dialogue with the whip would be in order. Fortunately, we haven't had to explore this avenue.
These are the types of challenges we are facing in a member of Parliament environment. I wear two hats in this thing. In my role as the corporate chief human resources officer for the House administration, things are fairly easy. When I go on your side to advise you, it becomes 338 small employers, so it is a challenge.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Rosemarie Falk Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK
Revictimization is something that I wonder about. If the process happens—mediation and everything else—and then there isn't trust, or an employee is still working with the member but they don't feel comfortable coming forward, then what do we do?
