Human Resources Committee on April 23rd, 2018

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Yes, I don't mind. I'm still a little uncertain. In the current regime a time frame has been established: 13 weeks for short-term disability, long-term disability, that sort of thing. Who establishes that? Is that through negotiation or through the President of the Treasury Board?

[Dennis Duggan]

That's part of an established long-term disability plan. If you get to a point where an illness or injury is such that it's determined that the individual cannot continue to work for an extended period, then the employee can be placed on that until they can at least return to work or it's determined they're healthy enough to come back.

In the past, and this is certainly what we attempted to do at the commencement of this last round of bargaining, we attempted to negotiate a new short-term disability plan that involved the sick leave plan we currently have, to get us to the point of the long-term disability plan that existed. The difference between what existed then and now is still the ability to negotiate, but with the repeal of the references to the president's ability to impose it unilaterally. There is a guarantee on the part of the bargaining agents, since changes to collective agreements, etc., cannot be done unilaterally. It means that if we want to make changes with regard to these issues or subject matters and to make progress with the type of proposal the president spoke about, we have to negotiate it with bargaining agents. The playing field has changed, in effect, with the repeal of the legislation in question.

[Dan Ruimy, Liberal, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Okay. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

MP Warawa, please.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

Thank you.

My colleague Ms. Falk, sitting beside me, asked what the industry standards or averages are, if we compare the public sector and private sector. Do you have any of those statistics available to share with us today?

[Sandra Hassan]

We do not have that here.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

That's fine. The wonderful thing about the Internet is that it provides information. In January of last year, Maclean's magazine had an article called “Public sector workers took a record number of sick days last year”. It noted that we should expect the disparity between public and private sector sick leave to keep growing. It said:

Is a health crisis ravaging Canada's public sector workers? One might wonder after looking at the latest stats on worker absenteeism in Canada. In 2016, civil servants missed a record number of workdays, according to annual job market statistics [available and provided]...by Statistics Canada. All told, the average public sector worker missed 13.5 days of work last year, the most ever. That compares with 8.3 days for workers in the private sector.

That was in 2016. That was 13.5 days compared to 8.3. It continued:

The gap between public and private sector absenteeism has been widening for years. Last year that disparity hit an all-time high, as [the] government workers took 5.2 more sick days than those in the private sector.

It also discussed the number of sick days that have been banked. Anyway, I'd encourage you to read this article in January of last year's Maclean's. I think it's very important and relevant.

You said that your consultation was only with unions, not with private industry. Is that correct?

[Sandra Hassan]

That is correct.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

Okay, and you're with the department. You're not in a political position, and you're getting direction from the government on where it wants to go. Is that correct?

[Sandra Hassan]

That's correct.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

If the government says they want to make a change to keep an election promise, which they have.... The minister himself said today that it was an election promise, and so they've consulted.

The people who will be paying for this promise are Canadian taxpayers, including employees of the public sector. But the majority of this cost, if the number of public sector sick days exceed those in the private sector, will be borne by the Canadian taxpayer who will be paying for that. Is that correct?

[Sandra Hassan]

The Canadian taxpayers pay for our salaries, so you are correct.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

I do thank you for your good work, but I just want to clarify this since you are here today.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

We have laughter from our Liberal colleagues. This is a serious issue when you're spending money out of control.

The mandate that the minister received was to “Work with the Minister of Finance and your colleagues to conduct a review of tax expenditures and other spending to reduce poorly targeted and ineffective measures, wasteful spending, and government initiatives that are ineffective or have outlived their purpose.” In other words, don't waste money, yet we have a government that still believes budgets will balance themselves, despite out of control spending.... Thank goodness for the Parliamentary Budget Officer who is—

[Wayne Long]

Chair, on a point of order, what's the relevance here? Again, we're getting a stump speech here.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

A point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

He can speak to his point of order.

[Wayne Long]

Mr. Chair, again, my colleague is talking about everything. He's got a wide range of topics in his speech, and I question the relevance to our witnesses here this afternoon.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you. I think that's potentially debate, not a point of order.

Mr. Blaney.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Mr. Chair, I certainly stand with you on your ruling.

On the other hand, my colleague is touching on one of the key elements of this legislation, one that costs $1 billion: sick leave. What he is showing is that sick leave in the public service is much higher than in the private sector. We have experts here, people who employ our public servants, who can answer the questions.

In my opinion, Mr. Long is out of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you. That's also debate, so let's wrap up these points of order. Thank you.

Mr. Warawa, you have an additional minute 45 seconds to wrap up your remarks.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

Thank you.

What I was sharing is very relevant. Bill C-62 appears to be a bill with not public consultation. There was consultation with only one party. It appears to be the billion dollar bill, or the golden handshake bill, or the growing disparity bill, whatever we want to call it, but it's a shocking.

I thank the department for answering our questions honestly, which they always do. They work very hard, but Bill C-62 is a partisan bill. It's a golden handshake bill, and we have to critique it. That's the responsibility of the official opposition, and that we are doing. We are finding out that this is not a good bill. It doesn't deserve to be supported.

When I was in government in 2008, the economic challenges then affected all members of society. Our members' office budgets were frozen, our pensions were cut back, and public sector was affected. Everybody was affected, and we all had to live within our means. The new government, God bless them, inherited a $2-billion surplus. That's all gone, and $2 billion doesn't sound like a lot of money now when you're into $22 billion a year in deficit, and we now have the trillion dollar club. It's shocking.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you.

MP Fortier.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

We are talking about the current state of the public service, but I would like to know what happens when public service employees are laid off. Do they lose everything? What happens?

Can you give us an idea of the number of public service employees who lost their jobs under the previous government, and the number of new employees who are now part of the public service?