Evidence of meeting #99 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was servants.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Mark Warawa Conservative Langley—Aldergrove, BC
—and I want to compliment you as being an obvious good choice to represent the government to try to make it look like things are going well when they're not.
You mentioned the best economic growth and investment in the public sector. I represent the Canadian taxpayer. Yes, we need to have good relationships with and respect for the public sector, but it's the Canadian taxpayer, and there's only one Canadian taxpayer, whether paying municipal, provincial, or federal taxes. Taxpayers are getting fed up with things becoming more and more unaffordable. In British Columbia, gasoline is now at $1.55 a litre, and we're talking about $2 a litre. Things are not affordable under the government, and people are asking why.
The Parliamentary Budget Officer has just reported that one of the reasons things are becoming less and less affordable is the out-of-control spending. The government reported that this year's deficit would be $18 billion. The promise was that it would be just a little deficit, and that promise wasn't kept. This is our third budget deficit—$22 billion this year. We've been told that the interest alone on the national debt will rise by $40 billion. Here we have Bill C-62, and we're being told that this is a bill about respect. It's a billion-dollar promise—not to the Canadian taxpayer, but to Canadian unions. It's the taxpayers that have to take up the slack, and they're getting outraged.
I'm hearing from Canadian seniors, and I hope you'll take back these important messages, Minister, to the cabinet. Palliative care funding was cut from this year's budget. They want it back in there. It was in the 2016-17 budget, and now it's gone. There are more Canadian seniors than youth. They're growing in number. In 12 years they will be one in four Canadians. Right now they're one in six. Currently, 70% of Canadians who need palliative care don't have access to it. You're very influential around the cabinet table. I hope you'll take back the important message to put funding for palliative care back in the budget.
Minister, I want to leave you enough time to answer.
I'm hearing from my constituents that they're furious at what the government did in regard to the Canada summer jobs program. It's not on par with what is was during the 14 years that I've been involved with it. The way Service Canada grades the applications this year, the grades are way lower than what they were in years past. In years past, nothing was graded as less than 73%, and most of them were in the 80s—like a B-plus, or an A-minus. This year they're all less than that—
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bryan May
I think he's coming to a question now. He has about a minute left.
Go ahead.
Conservative
Mark Warawa Conservative Langley—Aldergrove, BC
Minister, what is this going to cost the Canadian taxpayer? Mr. Blaney asked for the numbers, and that's the foundation of what's being presented in Bill C-62. How many new employees are involved under Bill C-62? What is this going to cost the Canadian taxpayer? The Library of Parliament said it would be a billion dollars. Is it over a billion dollars?
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
From March 2016 to March 2018, the number of employees in the core public administration increased by 11,000. In the federal public service—that's the core public administration plus the separate agencies—the increase is approximately 14,600. Keep in mind that the core public administration in total is approximately 208,300, and the total federal public service, which includes the core public administration plus the separate agencies, is 273,600. It's an increase over two years of 14,600 out of a total number of around 273,600.
In palliative care and, broadly, investments in seniors care and health care, our government is making unprecedented levels of investment working with the provinces, and we're doing that on an ongoing basis. My colleague, the Minister of Health, works with the provinces very closely, and the previous minister, Minister Philpott, when she was there, along with the Finance Minister, negotiated with the provinces a health care accord that is responsible to taxpayers and to citizens who need high-quality health care.
Mr. Warawa, you and I have worked together quite a bit, and when I was in government before, you'll remember that we worked back and forth on some things, even things in your riding. Members of Parliament have jobs to do, and I want to always, regardless of the party, work with them. I've been in opposition a lot more than I've been in government, so I understand very well the role of members of Parliament in that.
When you referred to taxpayers, I would argue that public servants are taxpayers too, and we should not demonize public servants as somehow being inherently disinterested in, or potentially even opposed to, doing what is right for taxpayers, because we need a good public service and public servants who are treated well, can deliver on any government's agenda and serve people well. I would argue that our public servants, in fact, are hard-working and are doing great work, but they're also taxpayers. I think that is important.
In terms of the Canada summer jobs program, the previous government cut in half the number of jobs. Our government has doubled it, and we have made significant investments to significantly increase the number of young people working in our ridings across Canada. We think it is really important for young people to be able to get that critical work experience, which is essential to their garnering their first full-time job after schooling and also to paying for their post-secondary education. It dovetails very well with the investments we're making in post-secondary education to make it more affordable for young people, but we are making those investments, and we'll continue to do that because it's important.
Liberal
Dan Ruimy Liberal Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC
Thank you very much.
Minister, Thank you for being here.
Before I jump into my little rant, is there anything else you wanted to add? I know you didn't have a lot of time.
Liberal
Liberal
Dan Ruimy Liberal Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC
I want to pick up where Wayne Long was going with this.
This is my first time as an elected politician. I've always been in the business field, and how we treat our employees really determines the productivity that we get back. If we mistreat them, if we disrespect them, there are so many different ways they can come back and slow down the wheels of government.
You mentioned in the beginning the sick leave and the $900 million the government said it would save. According a report by the PBO in July 2014, sick leave costs almost nothing—this is right from the PBO—since most positions outside those dealing with health and safety don't backfill those absent. The report said that, “Since most departments do not call in replacements when an employee takes a sick day, there are no incremental costs.”
Banked sick leave cannot be cashed out when a public servant retires. The sick leave they have accumulated is eliminated upon retirement at no cost to the taxpayer.
Therefore, when you look at this $900 million, it's a bit of a red herring. It misrepresents the system. Why would they do this? This is what I can't understand. Why would they arbitrarily take something away from the people who are the backstop of any government? Why would they take that away and do something that's so mean-spirited? I don't understand the reason behind it or what gain we get out of it. Can you try to elaborate on that a little bit more?
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
Thanks, Dan. There are a couple of things, and I think you made a good point.
It's actually bad in terms of governance, financial governance and accounting, to book savings when it's unclear where those savings will come from. Again, it was done in part to contribute to this notional or illusory surplus on the eve of an election.
Ultimately, as the PBO indicated, the $900 million may or may not have been delivered. Beyond that, this was subject to a court challenge. Before a court challenge is recognized, it is questionable to book the savings. I believe it's bad from a financial governance perspective, and it's also bad from a labour relations perspective.
Again, from our perspective, I would say that the work done with the public sector unions and Treasury Board officials on the issue of mental health and wellness has been really good work. The report that was delivered, I believe in 2016, by the joint council of Treasury Board as the employer and the unions was actually commissioned by the previous Conservative government under Tony Clement. I would give them credit. They recognized it at that time.
All I'm saying, colleagues, is that there were things they did that were constructive, including commissioning that report. Tony Clement, as president of the Treasury Board at that time, started that process. It created a very good report, and one on which we are acting. We are moving forward to create a centre for diversity, inclusion, and wellness, including a big focus on mental health and wellness out of that.
We want to do more in terms of employee wellness. We believe that the current regime is not doing enough for large parts of our public service, including young public servants who may have chronic serious illnesses or injury. Beyond that, we want to do more on mental health as we move forward, and to be a progressive employer in these areas of health and wellness.
Liberal
Dan Ruimy Liberal Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC
Thank you.
I have one minute. I'm going to pass my time to Mr. Morrissey, but I want to say that when we talk on the other side about outrage and moral outrage, if I'm a public servant and this sort of thing can be done to me without my consultation, taking my rights away just like that, that to me is outrageous.
Go ahead.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Minister, on a positive note, I would like for you to elaborate more on attracting young people to the public service. That is the future. I see that a lot in my community. How do we encourage more young people to enter the public service?
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
One area that we've expanded is the summer jobs program within the public service. We have one that started, I believe with 30 people. The indigenous youth summer jobs program started with about 30 youth, I think three years ago. Last summer, there were over 100 youth. I believe this year we're going to be expanding it quite significantly beyond that. We also have a summer jobs program for young Canadians with disabilities, again creating a more diverse public service, taking down some of the barriers, and learning from these. We're doing more for young people to get into the public service, but we still have work to do.
The Public Service Commission has done some work to reduce the amount of time it takes to do an online application from 40 minutes to 5 minutes. However, from the time a young person applies to join the public service, it still takes over 200 days on the part of the public service. Taking 35 minutes off a 200-day process doesn't strike me as going far enough. We have some work to do in making it easier for young people to join the public service.
We're also hearing from young people that they may not want to come into the public service and spend 20 or 30 years there. They may want to come in, for instance, to help us tackle some of the digital problems, issues, and opportunities, take on a couple of projects, and then get out. We have a fellow who joined us from Shopify, a big Ottawa tech success story—a Canadian tech success story. He joined us at CDS, Canadian digital services, for a period, and helped us take on some projects. He has gone back to Shopify.
With regard to making it easier for people to come in and serve and make a difference, take on some projects, then go out and take their experience, we have to do a lot more to improve that.
I recognize that's something where we have to have more flexibility and less hierarchy within government, but that's a longer conversation.
Conservative
Rosemarie Falk Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK
Thank you.
I wanted to ask a couple questions regarding the sick leave program. How do the existing public service programs for sick leave and disability compare to what is in the private sector?
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
It would depend on what private sector company you're speaking of.
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
I believe there are some progressive companies right now that may actually treat employees more fairly, particularly those who are newer and who have worked for a shorter period of time. That's one of the things I want us to address. The public service sick leave regime right now does not necessarily provide enough protection to young public servants who have less time within the public service and who suffer from serious or chronic illness. It's a difficult question to answer, because you'd have to look.... You asked me in general...I think you could look....