Human Resources Committee on July 20th, 2020

[Owen Charters]

Thank you, Isaac.

Mr. Chair, we will turn it over to you. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you very much.

Great job, Isaac.

Thank you, Mr. Charters.

Next, we'll go to Ms. Spinks, please.

[Nora Spinks, President and Chief Executive Officer, Vanier Institute of the Family]

Good afternoon, and thanks for the opportunity to spend a little time with you this afternoon.

This has been a time of disruption—a time of difficulty for some, a time of opportunity for others and certainly a time of adaptation and adjustment for us all. This disruption has changed the way we work, who works and who doesn't; how we connect with our co-workers, our colleagues, our clients and our customers; and how we connect to family and friends, our community and the world. This is a period of focus on health and well-being. It's also a period of generosity and gratitude. It's a period of responsiveness and responsibilities. It's a period of time for learning and growth.

As a research and education organization, we're focused on understanding families, family life, and family experiences, expectations and aspirations. COVID has really put a spotlight on family. Either we have spent intensive amounts of togetherness or we've experienced extreme separation. Every system has been tested—our economic system, health care, justice, child welfare, community services, education, early learning and child care, long-term care and our system of families.

One of the things that we have learned through all our work in the last several months is that every strength and every weakness of each of these systems has been magnified, intensified and amplified during COVID. An example of this is our health care system—the magnification of the dedicated medical professionals and those who support them, and the weaknesses in the long-term care sector, where our reliance is on family, friends and volunteers to supplement the care. Once you remove them from that environment, we know that the quality of care drops dramatically.

This has been a period of time when we've focused on needing to be well, to do well and to stay well. To do that, we need to really understand how our systems have been tested. We know that each of them has had an impact on family well-being, and we've come to the conclusion that there are about nine things that need to be in place to optimize family well-being during COVID and hereafter.

The first one is income. It needs to be adequate, stable and predictable. The physical environment needs to be adequate, it needs to be stable and there needs to be access to outdoors. Employment or attachment to the labour force needs to be flexible, it needs to have tools to be successful and there needs to be autonomy on how, where and when work gets done. Children need to have attentive adults. They need access to the Internet for home-schooling. They need opportunities to play, explore and discover. Families need adequate nutrition, opportunity for exercise and access to the health care system. They need quality connections with each other and others, and they need access to current, reliable and accurate information. Last, they need to be able to optimize their connections through individual and family well-being.

We know that not everybody has all of these elements in place, in particular in rural, remote and northern communities where there's high density and high precarity.

To give you a bit of a sense of what we've been up to since we went into lockdown on March 10, we began collaborating and partnering immediately with Statistics Canada, the Association for Canadian Studies and Leger to do week-over-week polling.

We've collaborated with a group of people to establish the COVID-19 social impacts network, which is now over 125 people who study, serve and support individuals and families, and who need to understand how COVID is impacting. We've been part of the CanCOVID network of experts, who have been brought together by Canada's chief science officer. We have been collaborating with our colleagues in Australia, the European Union and the U.S. We've been working with the G7 team for women's empowerment, with UNICEF, with the UN on the expert panel on families and with our university colleagues who are receiving SSHRC and CIHR grants.

We've also been partnering with the Canadian association of marriage and family therapists and the Canadian counselling and psychotherapists association. Also, a project we've been working on is looking at veterans' families, with the True Patriot Love Foundation, Veterans Affairs and the Canadian Institute for Military and Veteran Health Research.

What we've been doing is that, week over week, we've been collecting data through a poll. We have a standard set of questions that have been the same since March 10. We change a few of those week over week. We've also done some targeted surveys and have participated with Statistics Canada on their crowdsourcing survey. We collect the data, analyze it, synthesize it, mobilize it and operationalize it. The surveys go out on Friday and run over the weekend. We get the data back on Monday and analyze it on Tuesday. We write the report on Wednesday and translate it on Thursday, and on Friday the cycle returns again.

We've also been doing specific surveys with children and youth in collaboration with both UNICEF and Experiences Canada, a survey with family therapists, because we want to know what they're seeing in their offices and, as I mentioned, with veterans' families. Also, we've done boosters in the week-over-week work that include new Canadians, indigenous peoples and people from visible minority communities, and again, some boosters with youth. We collect that data and we've been running conferences and doing reflective practice sessions across the country week over week.

We've been posting this data. I've been looking at what I can share with you. There is a ton of information on our website and a lot more on the COVID-19 social impacts website. I'll make sure you have access to all of that.

As for what we've been finding, we're waiting for funding for looking at a broad “families in Canada” survey. We're waiting to hear back for some funding on families in recovery and families new to Canada, and also for a study on fertility and pregnancy implications, because what we've been hearing is that young people who were planning pregnancies in 2020 have postponed those, and that's going to have huge implications for everything from maternity benefits through to kindergarten and to high schools in the years ahead. We're also looking at parents' confidence in the early learning, child care and education systems as we start the rollback over the summer and into the fall.

We've been designing these surveys and polls so that we can compare them with pre-COVID using existing tools and then look at them post-COVID. We're also looking at some of the international things, such as what are the impacts on air pollution, childhood allergies and asthma, and premature births. Premature births have been dropping steadily during COVID. Nobody really understands why, so we want to get a handle on that. We also want to look at the stresses and strains on families and community and the impacts on well-being.

With just a few minutes left, I want to give you some samples of some of the results that we've experienced in the last little while.

One of the things that's interesting is that the data that's being collected right now is of very high quality. It's representative. It's solid information.

One of the things is that people are really interested to tell their story and to share their information. For the very first crowdsourcing survey that Statistics Canada did in relationship to COVID-19, when we had the questions ready and it was ready to roll out, we were hoping to get about 15,000 responses within 10 to 15 days. By day six in the field, we had more than 275,000 responses and, of those, 68% gave their email addresses for further study thereafter, so the data we have is solid.

We do know that those who were doing well before COVID are still, by and large, doing well. Those who were not doing well are doing way worse. For those in the middle, many of them are doing better, and a few of them are doing not as well.

Just to give you some specifics, I'll share with you briefly a couple from the very last poll that we put out, which I think might be of particular interest to you. It was around how many people are worried about the deficit. Thirty-five per cent are very worried, 43% are somewhat worried and 18% are not at all worried or not very worried. In response to the deficit, asked whether or not they thought government should scale back on the programs or payments, 41% said yes, and 44% said no.

On mask wearing, most people who are wearing masks are doing so in grocery stores. For those who flat-out refuse, it's mostly in bars, which has the highest refusal rate, and on public transit. When asked whether or not people think that we're at the end of the first wave, 40% say yes, and 47% say no. When asked about releasing protective measures, 10% said that the government should accelerate that pace, 64% are quite content and ask that you maintain it, and only 26% want you to slow it down.

In terms of mental health, if you had excellent or very good mental health going into COVID, chances are you're still experiencing excellent or very good mental health. If you had bad mental health, it's as bad or worse. There was a slight shift around early April, where a lot of the negatives peaked and then they came down.

This is true, too, for couples. Couples in March and into early April were very lovey-dovey, had meaningful conversations, no stresses, no strains, and then by week three, they were getting a little testy with one another. It was not so great by week three to four, and then it stabilized and has been fairly positive thereafter.

People find that it's very stressful leaving their homes, even with masks. The youth are more afraid of their loved ones contracting COVID than themselves, and they're much interested in looking after each other.

In terms of fear—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Ms. Spinks, can you wrap it up? We're well over time.

[Nora Spinks]

Oh, I'm sorry.

Fear was highest in early April, and it was also lowest in early April. If you were very afraid, it was high in April, or not at all afraid, also high in April.

You can see by just these few examples that there is a lot we can learn from the data that has been collected, and now it's time to figure out how we're going to apply some of this learning in the programs, services and supports going forward.

Thank you for your time, and I apologize. My clock says I'm still on time. Sorry.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you very much. It was extremely valuable information. I was quite reluctant to stop you, quite frankly. However, there will be more to come out in the course of the questions, I'm sure.

We'll start with Ms. Kusie, for six minutes, please.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you very much to all of our witnesses here today.

Owen and Isaac, it's very wonderful to see both of you here at committee.

Owen, I'm going to start with you.

You mentioned that you did not receive all of the Canada summer job grants for which you had applied. I'm wondering if you got any information or reason as to why you did not receive grants for all of the positions for which you put requests forward.

[Owen Charters]

There were definitely some clubs that received all of them. We had several who are used to receiving certain portions, or allocations I guess, of the summer jobs grant and then discovered that they had not all been approved.

When they talked to their local MPs, they were given the reason that there was a much higher demand for the summer grants than had been normally the case. I think there were more employers out there looking for it. They were told that while there may have been more grants given overall, there were many more employers looking for them.

That's all we've been told at this point in any of the follow-ups. I think some have done a follow-up to see if there is a way to refine some of those positions, but I don't have a follow-up yet on how that has gone.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Okay. Thank you for that, Owen.

Isaac, thank you so much for being here today. I just loved listening to your story about your life in Fredericton. I was in Fredericton this past summer, and I think I had the good fortune to go to the market that you described. It's a wonderful place.

Your story really resonated with me in terms of the hopes of young Canadians today. When you and your friends talk about the future, how do you feel about your futures and what do you see?

[Isaac Fraser-Dableh]

When my friends and I talk about our future, we talk about what jobs we're looking at and where we want to be set up, where we think we will work, where we should be set up when we're working.

One of my friends likes computer science and the technology of that, and he thinks maybe he should go to Toronto because there's a bigger demand there than here.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

You think about the different dreams you have for your future, like all young people and like all young people should. Thank you for that, Isaac.

[Isaac Fraser-Dableh]

You're welcome.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Ms. Spinks, thank you very much for your testimony.

I was very happy to hear you mention True Patriot Love. A certain leader, a candidate I'm supporting in the Conservative race, is a founding member of the board of directors, so thank you for that. I feel as though you might have had a spy cam in my house, seeing the interactions between my spouse and me over the last few months.

I find legitimacy in all the responses you gave, but what really breaks my heart is that in regard to the testimony of all our witnesses here today, we're talking about jobs, programs and how the jobs and supports are going to be distributed, but from that we need a strong economic recovery plan. The Conservatives have said over and over again that we are the only nation in the G7 that doesn't have an economic recovery plan.

I want all Canadians to receive the supports they so require. I want young Canadians like Isaac to have good jobs to go to, and I'm very concerned that we are not seeing an economic recovery plan fast enough to allow for all of that.

Ms. Spinks, those are a few comments on that. I really appreciate your commentary. Thank you very much.

I'll go back to Mr. Charters, Owen as I've been calling you, if I may, please. I wanted to give you an opportunity to explain your program, your year-round Canada youth jobs program, and to expand on that. I wanted to get your opinion in addition to further explaining the program you envision. Have you seen the CERB negatively impact the youth initiative? Isaac has talked about how young people want to enter the workforce. They want to be in the workforce but have you seen any influence on youth employment?

Could you perhaps explain a bit more of your program and then comment a bit on the CERB, please?

[Owen Charters]

I'll try to do a bit of both.

The first piece is that we're looking at the fact that—it's not just about this pandemic—youth don't just simply leave school at the end of the spring term and come back in the fall anymore. They're changing the times at which they come back to school. They're taking gap years. They're juggling their schedules to start in different semesters. There's a lot more flexibility in post-secondary education.

We see a program designed around an older agrarian model that says you have the summer off and that's when your summer jobs happen, yet we're seeing employers saying there are opportunities that don't just happen in the summer. There are opportunities in lots of industries that happen year-round, and if we were able to offer these opportunities to youth at times that make sense for them and allow for them to save for education, in some cases, to take the time before they re-enter post-secondary education, then we'd have a program that better fits the realities of how youth think about work and how they think about education.

The idea around this, which came even pre-pandemic, is that this is a program that would better suit the needs of both employers and students these days. I think that's the first piece in rethinking this in terms of what would be a greater modernization of how the program works.

I can't speak as significantly around CERB, except to say that students, to my understanding, are not eligible, but they've been benefiting from the Canada emergency student benefit. That's been okay but not adequate, because we're seeing a huge demand for students to go into savings mode through the summer months, and the living expenses, tuition expenses, when you add all of them up, you have a lot of youth who aren't pulling in the same incomes either from jobs or from these benefits that they might have done if they had full-time employment or opportunities around that. We're seeing that it's not significant enough to give youth the opportunities they're looking for from those benefits.

I have to admit I don't have any more details on access or lack of access except that students are saying it's not enough for them.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Charters and Ms. Kusie.

Next we're going to Mr. Long, please, for six minutes.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, everybody.

Mr. Charters, first and foremost, I want to acknowledge the great work that you do and that the Boys and Girls Clubs of Canada do right across the country. Certainly, in my riding, Saint John—Rothesay, the Boys and Girls Club has an excellent executive director in Amy Appleby-Shanks and her team. They continue to do fantastic work. They opened up their gym throughout this pandemic for Outflow, our men's shelter. They just do wonderful, wonderful work.

Isaac, I want to thank you. Hello from Saint John, New Brunswick, your neighbour. I want to thank you for sharing the youth perspective. Your presentation, your words were very profound and meaningful, so thank you for that.

Mr. Charters, I just want to also throw in that I wholeheartedly support your advocacy for the transformation of the Canada summer jobs program into a Canada youth jobs program. Last Parliament, last committee, I was proud to be part of the committee when we recommended—as part of the report “Experiential Learning and Pathways to Employment for Canadian Youth”—that ESDC explore transforming the jobs program into a broadly based youth jobs program for Canadian youth. I just wanted to throw in that you certainly have my support in that.

Mr. Charters, my question to you is this: Our government announced a $350-million emergency community support fund to support charities and non-profits delivering services to help communities through the COVID-19 pandemic. Has the Boys and Girls Clubs, the local branches, applied for or received any of this funding? If so, what has been the impact of this funding on the ground?

[Owen Charters]

Thank you, Mr. Long. That's a great question, and it's great to acknowledge Amy Shanks, who does wonderful work, as you say, in Saint John and keeps our feet to the fire, as well, in our national team to make sure that they get what they need from us.

I would say that with regard to the $350-million emergency community support fund, most clubs have applied and have received funding. They've received it through the streams of community foundations, through the Red Cross, as well through United Way, depending on what sort of support they were looking for. Many have talked about the support that's provided.

A lot of it is when our clubs on the ground are providing emergency food relief, a lot of emergency mental health supports and check-ins to families. All of these measures cost money. That program is critical to supporting that work. We've also seen it support the personal protective equipment that clubs need.

I think one thing I would add, though, is that clubs have struggled with the fact that it doesn't support some of their own financial needs. It very much is designed to support the direct service—which is fantastic—what they've seen that the families, children and youth in our communities need. What they've struggled with is that it doesn't pay things like their rents and overheads. Our clubs are infrastructure-based, so they see those costs continue through. We continue to push for some form of a sustainability fund that non-profits and charities might benefit from beyond the $350-million fund....

Sorry, go ahead.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

That's okay. I just want to get a few of these things in.

You just acknowledged that the fund may not support some of the financial needs of the clubs, and I've heard that from other non-profits too. How would you like to see funding roll out that would impact you more effectively?

[Owen Charters]

There is a proposal put in originally by Imagine Canada—and I think it's still on the table with ESDC—that looks at a grant-based program that looks at losses and I think allows charities, especially charities and non-profits, to calculate.... If you think more about their balance sheet and what they might be struggling with, we're not replacing all income here. We're thinking about the fact that these organizations sometimes have costs that are draining their reserves, and most charities don't have many reserves. Therefore, Imagine Canada put in a proposal that looks for a grant-based fund that would allow organizations to apply for cost recovery for things that would allow them to keep the doors open or to return to service when they can and safely can do so.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Okay. Thank you for that.

Mr. Chair, I'd like to share the rest of my time with MP Kusmierczyk.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Long.

Go ahead, Mr. Kusmierczyk.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Charters, I really do appreciate your enthusiasm for the Canada summer jobs program. I can tell you that when our government stepped forward in 2015, one of the first things we did was double the number of Canada summer job placements. During the COVID pandemic, we actually invested to add an additional 10,000, so I can tell you that we've created 86,000 quality positions for young people across the country at this point.

In addition to giving you the number of jobs, I just want to give you an opportunity to talk about some of the flexibilities that we introduced, especially the flexibility to be able to carry out the placements up to February 28, 2021. If you can speak about the importance of having those flexibilities for young people to be able to take advantage of those placements while they're in school....

[Owen Charters]

Yes. I think that's actually exactly the sort of flexibility we're looking for. I think we've seen that those investments, with the doubling in the funding, have been fantastic. It has worked. We see that many clubs—as employers—and many others are taking advantage of these positions. I think that's clear in the fact that we have some clubs that may not have filled their usual quotas, so the demand is there, and I think on both sides, both for employers and for youth.

I think the flexibility to take it through to February is a great recognition of the flexibility that employers want but that students are also looking for. In terms of what I'm hearing from a lot of students, Isaac is one example, and I hear from many others who are saying that they're really uncertain about how they're going to return to school, and they're uncertain about what their employment prospects look like through this winter season. They're looking at the fact that they may need to be working more, either by doing school work and working—they may be doing school work virtually—or they may decide to put off school work by a term in order to earn enough. I think some are looking forward to returning in person and are waiting for the moment when they can return to the classroom on an in-person basis.

From the clubs we've spoken to, that extension has been received quite positively, and also by other employers. I also think it's a model for how the program might evolve to become something that is a more year-round program, recognizing that it's not just for during a pandemic, but that it is how students are increasingly thinking about school and work.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Charters and Mr. Kusmierczyk.

Ms. Chabot, you have six minutes.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you.

First, I have a quick question for Mr. Charters. I would also like to welcome Ms. Spinks.

With respect to the Canada summer jobs program, if I understood you correctly, a panel—