Human Resources Committee on July 20th, 2020

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to both of our witnesses for being here today. It's great to hear from both of you, and it's amazing how much experience you bring to this conversation.

Mr. Cordes, most of my questions will probably be for you because I think my colleagues will probably focus on our other witness today, Mr. Racicot.

Mr. Cordes, thank you for your 35 years of commitment to your local community. I actually had an opportunity to tour your organization's facilities on Richmond Street in London a few years ago, and I know you're profiled as an organization that's really been embracing social innovation, so thanks for all your work.

Can you maybe paint us a portrait? Certainly the testimonial from Samuel paints us a portrait, perhaps, of the at-risk youth in your community. During this pandemic there's certainly evidence to suggest that youth at risk would be even more vulnerable than normal.

Can you tell us or paint us a picture of how vulnerability is increasing for those youth at risk?

[Steve Cordes]

A really blunt comment is that our staff tell me that we've lost five young people to overdoses over the past few weeks. That level of loss is.... There's no comparison to our previous history.

Most of that would have been unintentional. It would have been daily use that escalated as a coping strategy. Certainly drug and alcohol use, substance abuse, has gone up.

What's really become even more important for us are those daily connections, so I mentioned our housing team briefly in the answer to the last question. To elaborate a little bit on that, we're still knocking on doors of young people who live in our buildings on an almost-daily basis. We have a daily breakfast program that's now a bagged program, so it's limited in terms of all the protocols, of course, that underline everything. But it's really important that we're still that touch space for people, because that level of isolation for people who are already feeling marginalized and outside of the community is just profound. Anxiety levels are up. Depression levels are up, and of course I mentioned that some of the evidence of that is loss of life. It's profound.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thank you for sharing that, and I know it's concerning for all of us.

Does this inform any changes that we can make? I know that we as a government have been deeply concerned about all different segments of the population that may be marginalized and also more vulnerable at this time. We've been rolling out supports very quicky for all of those segments of the population.

I wonder whether you have, from your experience, anything to inform any further changes to help youth in your community.

[Steve Cordes]

That's a really good question and I've thought about that—what are the specific things—and you know, they still need in-person support. I would say that wherever you're making investments, you look to your providers and encourage—within safety, of course—in-person support. We can talk about our circles of 10 and about our social frameworks and so on, but either these folks just don't have that or the folks who are around them are really not what you and I would consider supportive.

One of the young people put it to me really, really well a couple of years ago. Actually, Adam would have met her. Her name is Courtney. She talked about how when you're experiencing homelessness, your friends—who we would consider as friends—don't give; your friends take. If you get money, your friends want it. If you get food, your friends want it. With drugs, whatever might be of value, a home, an apartment, your friends will come and crash....

Your friends aren't necessarily building you up. They're so hungry—hungry in a very general sense, not literally necessarily—for support that they'll take whatever they can from you. To break from that, those folks need a strong community around them. They don't need to be told what to do. They need a strong community around them, support they can gravitate to.

I think Sam is a good illustration of that, because Sam credits 50% of his success to his grandmother and 50% of his success to YOU. That's what he said when he was on that webinar a couple of weeks ago. We didn't let him get away with that because he earns 100% of his success, but these folks were the community that we all have a right to. Not everybody has that, and marginalized folks particularly don't have that.

Encourage your providers to find ways to be there in person. Many of my colleagues.... Not to be armchair quarterbacks, but I saw too many organizations that walked away from the in-person contact right away, without any platform for how they were going to get back to it.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Cordes.

I have a last question here, quickly.

Your model seems particularly effective because it combines housing, employment supports, a variety of programming to engage youth, food and social enterprise. I'm really interested in the successful combination of housing, food and social enterprise, and I wonder how that might be informative for economic recovery and youth success in the future.

Do you want to say something about that quickly? I know Mr. Chair is going to cut me off any second.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

You're out of time.

Give a short answer, please, Mr. Cordes.

[Steve Cordes]

A short answer....

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

I know it's a big question, but do your best.

[Steve Cordes]

Yes, it's a big question.

Could you summarize the question really quickly, because I did have a short answer that I could come back to? Are you allowed to do that?

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

With regard to the intersection between housing and social enterprise and food, do you want to tell us anything about that successful model?

[Steve Cordes]

Absolutely. Thank you very much.

In brief, most of our very marginalized young people never walk in the doors at YOU and say they're looking for work. It's not because they don't want it. They don't see it in their realm. They don't see it within their future.

Our social enterprise platforms have been really successful in helping young people find their niche, not because they want to work in a café or a recycling facility or whatever, but because it inspires community. It inspires work and hope.

I think Sam's letter spoke to that. With housing, and supportive housing that provides that safe place, that becomes the starting point for people. The intersection around all that is just phenomenal. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Cordes.

Ms. Chabot, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair. First of all, I want to apologize to you, to my colleagues, to the clerk, and to the interpreters. I hope everything will go well despite my lateness.

Is everything okay with the interpreters?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Yes, it's going very well.

It's always a pleasure to be with you. Welcome.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you. I'm usually on time, very much on time. There, I just lost 30 seconds.

I really want to thank our two witnesses.

I will start with a general comment.

Mr. Cordes, as you just said, in a webinar, for example, young people mentioned that half of their success is due to their grandmother. That's great. If my grandchildren need my help, I'm here for them. We know that grandparents are significant people for children. Young people have said that organizations like yours, Mr. Cordes and Mr. Racicot, have also helped them succeed. It is true that it takes dedicated workers, managers and people to ensure that these homes or the services they offer help young people a great deal. I am convinced that we have every interest in continuing to support these organizations.

Mr. Racicot, when we look at the history of the Maison des jeunes des Basses-Laurentides, we see that it has had its ups and downs, but it is truly beneficial to the community. In the early 1980s, there was not really a place for young people to gather or to belong. That's what you offer them. Parents I met at your wonderful gala told me, with tears in their eyes, how much your organization meant to their young people.

Mr. Racicot, when the COVID-19 pandemic hit us in early March, we were totally confined, and the Maison des jeunes had to close its doors. The young people who met there regularly for their various activities were deprived of them.

Your organization has a team of community stakeholders. You said that it is a non-profit organization funded largely by grants. Have you had to resort to federal assistance programs such as wage subsidies or to temporary layoffs? Have your workers benefited from the Canada emergency response benefit? If so, do you feel that the programs were sufficient to deal with the situation?

[Bernard Racicot]

Yes, we used federal programs. Two of our stakeholders have received the CESB; many of our stakeholders are students. For us, these programs have been essential in dealing with the situation. We wouldn't have been able to do it otherwise.

I am a part-time employee at the Maison des jeunes and I benefited from the CERB as an employee of another organization for which I worked. As I said earlier, I was able to give some of my time to the Maison des jeunes through social networking. So the programs were essential for us and helped us get through the crisis. The needs are immense and we would certainly like more. We are dealing with huge anxiety issues among young people.

Of course, our team is downsized this summer, but thanks to you, Ms. Chabot, we were able to have one more counsellor during this period.

We have to adapt continuously and it's difficult, because we're always a bit caught in the middle. In our meetings with stakeholders in early summer, we were wondering how we were going to respond. No one knew, but we still had enough money and a team, even a small one, to be able to intervene with young people this summer.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, that's very interesting.

I have a second question for you. There is a survey to find out how young people experienced the COVID-19 crisis. Hopefully, that won't happen, but everyone is talking about a second wave and fearing the arrival of the fall. If I am not mistaken, it is mostly young people between the ages of 12 and 17 who attend the Maison des jeunes des Basses-Laurentides.

[Bernard Racicot]

Yes.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

We've seen their anxiety and distress. The high schools that the majority of them attend were not open. They were isolated and all.

Were you able to keep in touch with them after all? What would help you most in the future? We mentioned the CERB, but are there other ways or measures that would help you get through this?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Could you give a brief answer, please?

[Bernard Racicot]

All right.

I'm just going to tell you a little story. We get in touch with them through social networks and through our activities in the courtyard. We also go to the village and call them personally. My colleague called a young girl who is suffering from anxiety and who had not left her house until last week. My colleague went to her house, and they were able to go for a walk. It was the first time this person had left her home. This little story shows how young people can be isolated and suffer from anxiety. This anxiety is linked to problems that can go as far as drug use.

So, as far as future needs are concerned, it will mainly be a question of having a team capable of organizing these meetings, which will be more and more individual.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Chabot and Mr. Racicot.

Next is Ms. Kwan.

Go ahead, please, for six minutes.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to both of the witnesses. Both of you actually emphasized the need for individual connections, and there is no question. I come from the non-profit sector, and making that connection and building that trust with the individuals is absolutely paramount.

To the issue of supports in the program for the youth you are providing supports to, I'm wondering, in the face of COVID-19 and the special situations and challenges that it presents, and given that some of the programming is coming to an end with respect to COVID supports, if you have any concerns with respect to that or if you have any recommendations to make in terms of going forward with ongoing supports for folks at this time.

Maybe we can start with Mr. Cordes.

[Steve Cordes]

Thank you very much.

Absolutely. I know that specialized programs are going to be coming to an end, and I'd suggest that for any ongoing recovery supports that you not make partnerships for the sake of having partnerships. I think I've been around long enough to have seen that when government wants to send support letters or to have six partners before it will fund a program and so on, you end up with nothing but a lot of paper going back and forth between organizations.

Where you can have really significant impact is by assigning true value in your funding assessments, in your programs, to interdisciplinary partnerships. For example, we have a great partnership with a local not-for-profit called London Abused Women's Centre. Their focus is on women who have experienced physical or sexual abuse. They are taking the lead on an anti-human-trafficking initiative. Part of that involves girls as young as 15 years old. They've reached out to us, and we have a very active memorandum of understanding between our two organizations whereby, for anybody who falls into our age mandate, we can help them out with housing. When the shelter opens, we'll ensure that each young woman who comes in through a referral gets a dedicated room at the shelter. Then these two organizations together—LAWC through the work that they do around the violence experiences and us around the housing and employment supports that we can offer—are doing something that neither one of us could do individually. We do that with mental health space, with CMHA, and even with our local hospitals around mental health care.

I would think that going forward for COVID recovery—these will be very complex issues—no one organization is going to be able to do all of these things. I would hope that any ongoing federal investments would look at.... You're not going to fund agency A to do what they normally do plus a whole bunch more, and then measure them. You should look at how, fundamentally, they are working with their partnership and can demonstrate the value in that, whether it's through an MOU that articulates the value added for the federal investment and then the community benefits.... It should be something like that, something that really instills these active partnerships.