Human Resources Committee on March 12th, 2020

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

I have no problem, obviously, exploring the full scope of the program as it relates to the pilot project. That's one of the characteristics of the pilot project. What I will say is that the timing of this is important, because I've just confirmed with the department that they will be doing a review. That's why they're doing a pilot project, so they can understand the impact. If we do it too close to May, they won't have done the review, and they won't have the statistics, the impacts, the numbers and the experiences catalogued to share with us, so just make sure that the timing of this be tied to when that review is done so they can present that review and we can test it with the full information required.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Ms. Chabot, the floor is yours.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

I want to come back to my colleague's comment. As I understand it, the temporary foreign worker program and the pilot project on seasonal work are two completely different things.

I see no problem with studying the temporary foreign workers program. It is another committee's responsibility, but they could transfer it to us, according to what I have heard. However, the current pilot project for seasonal workers deals with employment insurance and applies to seasonal work, like fishing, in certain parts of the country.

I feel that we must distinguish between seasonal work and the situation for temporary foreign workers, even if they also come for seasonal work, as they often do. However, today's matter is about workers in a given region whose work is seasonal. Those are two different situations. So we would first have to decide whether our committee is the right place to study the issue of temporary foreign workers, and then decide if we need another motion.

I understand that the calendar will have to be revised. The department is currently asking how to improve the program we have now. If we want to make sure that the program does not become permanent in its present form, I feel that we must help the department with its study.

So we could meet with people who have current experience of the pilot project and who want it to be renewed, but not until it is amended. The groups and companies involved certainly have suggestions about it and it would be our way of contributing to the department's study.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Mr. Albas, please.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

I can appreciate that. Really, “temporary foreign worker” is the lexicon everyone seems to recognize. The seasonal agricultural workers program is no longer part of that umbrella, but, again, people have been continually asking, particularly both workers and people in my area, both in the Similkameen Valley as well as the Okanagan Valley.... One of the things I literally said is that it would be interesting to find out from someone.... The officials we would call can speak to this project. It would be very easy for us to tag it on just to simply ask for an official to come in to give an explanation. The last thing I want to do is launch a full-on study about something that may have a very simple explanation. This way we can deal with it rather than having to try to launch a whole studied affair.

My intervention here today is not to prolong or take away from the motion here but just to simply to say that perhaps we can get a few answers by simply tagging this on, and then we can take it from there.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Ms. Young.

[Kate Young, Liberal, London West, ON]

I'm just wondering if that's not a question for the minister when the minister is here.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

What I'm worried about is that we will have officials come who have no idea about this, because we didn't elaborate that this is what we were looking for. To be fair to a minister, to know how the tail end of this program is, when someone has been paying into it through their payroll taxes and whatnot and are unable to remit.... Again, having someone from the same department that specializes in it.... This is just a very unique set of information. Again, as I said, I just want to ask a couple of questions, ask the government to say why it is that someone who travels from, let's say Jamaica or Mexico, is contributing to CPP when they never stand any chance to benefit from it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Ms. Gazan.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Just a thought—I know that in my riding, temporary foreign workers and migrant workers are a huge issue. It probably warrants more than just a small part of study given certain human rights matters and issues around that. I'm wondering if that might be better as a study on its own, just out of respect for the difficulties many workers face when they're either temporary foreign workers or migrant workers.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Mr. Albas.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

I may not be on this committee six months from now, and if we are going to be doing this work, I just want to be effective for my constituents. I do recognize that the member has been very kind to let me pop this in there.

I'm asking members if we could simply allow this. If the rationale doesn't make sense or if perhaps MP Gazan takes issue with the answer, then that might deserve a full study, but whenever there is an opportunity for us to be able to deal with the concerns of Canadians and to find out why this practice is done....

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Madame Chabot.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

It is appropriate, as I see it, but it would need another study.

I am not sure that it is my role to explain how the employment insurance program applies to workers in seasonal industries. At most, I could talk about it for five minutes. However, that does not address the relevant question my Conservative colleague asked. The two things are different.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Mr. Vaughan.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

Just to remind those who weren't on the committee last time, we did an extensive study on temporary foreign workers in the last term of Parliament. I think were 10 sessions of study on that, and there's a report that triggered a reform of that whole system.

What the member opposite is asking for is a very particular study about a very particular program, the pilot program dealing with seasonal workers in seasonal industries, which is a new program that was launched last year in response to a long-standing challenge we have, which is often referred to as “the black hole”. That's why I think she's moving it, because it is that specific, and it is brand new.

I would be shocked if the people that come to explain that to us can't answer the question that the member opposite is raising. I think it's easiest to allow him to ask the question. My guess is that it will be a pretty quick answer, and that we can go home from there. I don't think we're asking for a day to study that issue. I think we're asking for an explanation, and when the department gives it, he'll get it.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

My intention with the motion is to make sure there's a person there who can answer the question. If the government actually says, “We will make someone available”—

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

I might want to get you a briefing note in between.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Okay. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

In there anything further?

Mr. Dong.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

I'm a new member. I thought I'd try to offer an option.

Is it possible for the committee to ask the minister whatever the question might be in writing and ask him to present an answer in writing? Would that be good enough as an option?

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

My suggestion would be that, if we have someone here, I may ask a question, and the answer may stimulate another question. I'll have five minutes, and sometimes a five-minute conversation is worth well more than any letter, email or series of emails. That's why I think having someone identified....

MP Vaughan said that he's pretty sure someone will be there, so either I can have some assurance that someone will be able to answer intelligent questions.... I promise not to be vexatious but simply to satisfy...so that I can look my constituents in the eye and say that this has been raised, and maybe, if there is a bigger issue, I can work with other members of Parliament like MP Gazan to have a look at that.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

I speak for myself. I'm convinced. Albas is very persuasive, and I admire his commitment to represent his constituents, so I'm okay with it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Is there any further discussion on the amendment?

All right. We're ready for the question then.

The amendment is to add, after the word “may,” the following: “as well as to question officials with knowledge of payments made of payroll taxes by temporary foreign workers”.

Is that it?

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Yes, “temporary foreign workers program” or “seasonal agricultural workers program”, whichever one—