Human Resources Committee on April 24th, 2020

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Yes, in the same letter, Minister, it says right here that she went to a representative and he said to her, “There is a clause in the CERB that states if you will be receiving maternity benefits, you are not eligible for the $2000 a month and will be put immediately on regular E.I. benefits.”

Minister, you're telling us one thing and your officials at Service Canada are telling constituents differently. Did you apply a—

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

I understand.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Minister, I'm not done.

Did you apply a gender-based analysis plus on the CERB, and are you determined that you are going to fix this sooner than later?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Well, we're absolutely determined that this will be fixed for sure.

Let me say that I understand from what that letter is saying that somebody can't be on both maternity benefits and the CERB, but they are eligible for both, and they can sequentially be on the CERB and then flip to maternity benefits, so it is—

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

We are also getting other reports, Minister, where people are being told they have to take their maternity leave early and they do not qualify for the CERB.

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Well, that should not be the case and you have my commitment to make sure that isn't the case.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Minister, in the House on April 11, you said, “in order to change the criteria to include groups of individuals who are not working but who have not stopped working for CERB, legislative changes would be required.”

Now, a few days later you announced that people who hadn't lost their jobs would be covered without a legislative change. I have asked your office repeatedly for an explanation and I have gotten zero response.

How are you covering people who didn't lose their job to COVID when the eligibility criteria in the legislation we passed clearly states it's a requirement?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Thanks for that question. It's very important. I tried clearly to make the distinction in the House last Saturday between some changes that would require legislation and some that could be done through regulation. Changing the language of “ceased working” to “not working” would require a legislative change, but there are changes that we could make by regulation.

After that time, we got a legal opinion and were advised that we could do this particular change through a broad interpretation of the law, which I'm happy to walk you through. You know we are in an emergency situation. We found a way to do what was being asked of us by Canadians and by the opposition.

We're giving Canadians more support and we are confident that we had the authority, so the legislation—

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Minister, a legal opinion is just a legal opinion until it's checked by a court. We shouldn't have to have the Standing Joint Committee for the Scrutiny of Regulations determine whether or not you're in violation. I do hope that if you need legislative changes, you take it up at the next opportunity.

Now, in this announcement, your government said that seasonal workers would not be covered by the CERB, except that is not really—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Albas. That's your time. You're over by a minute—

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Hopefully, I will get another round.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

You will indeed.

Mr. Long, please, for the Liberals; you have six minutes.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon from sunny Saint John—Rothesay to all my colleagues and my friends. It's wonderful to be back at HUMA and it's wonderful to see everybody again.

First off, Minister, I want to thank you for coming to HUMA today and answering our questions. I sincerely want to thank you, on behalf of my constituents in Saint John—Rothesay, for our government's and for your department's rollout in particular on the CERB. Obviously, there are those naysayers who would say that the program has been rushed and poorly thought out. I've never seen a program that has been this extraordinary to get money out to Canadians so quickly, so seamlessly, in really the crisis of a generation.

I want to thank you first and foremost for the CERB. When I heard about the Canada emergency response benefit, CERB, I didn't realize that I'd certainly be referring to it and dreaming about it every night. But there are still some things that we need to talk about. We need to fine-tune and tweak some things.

My first question is about the disincentive to work with respect to the CERB. I certainly have some employers in my riding who are starting to ramp back up. I thank God that New Brunswick is leading the country right now, with our sixth straight day of no cases. We're starting to ramp forward. But some employers in the riding are starting to talk to their employees about coming back, and unfortunately they've dealt with some employees saying, “Well, I'm still on the CERB. I don't really want to come back to work right now.”

I want to see how we can tighten that up. For example, I would like you to explain how the recent changes, which are good changes to the CERB, allowing people to earn up to $1,000 to continue receiving the benefit and our government's proposed employee top-up for essential workers, will help ensure that the CERB is not the disincentive to honest work.

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

I agree with you that the implementation and delivery of this massive benefit in such a timely and efficient way is really testament to the hard work of our public servants. I'm so proud of how they're delivering for fellow Canadians.

We know that the CERB, in giving a monthly payment of $2,000, has had the unintended consequence, to your point, of disincentivizing work in some circumstances. We have tried—you mentioned the two examples I was going to give, so I will elaborate on them—to incentivize working, or to being able to continue working, by adding...and, I would say, in response to a lot of what was raised by opposition and Canadians and organizations and employers. By allowing Canadians to earn up to $1,000 and still be in receipt of the CERB means that $1,000 in most provinces is about, I think, if my math is correct, a half-time position at minimum wage. They're allowing people to still work and earn $1,000.

Remember, that $1,000 is flexible. It's not tied to the number of hours or what you earn. You can earn it in a day, you can earn it through a contract, or you can earn it by working a certain number of hours. By recognizing at the same time, on the other end of that, in doing that $1,000 limit...we also need to ensure that people who are working very hard, which would include most people in essential services, aren't earning less by working full time than those receiving the $2,000 on the CERB and earning the $1,000 max.

That was the reason behind our essential workers top-up. That's why we're working with provinces to deliver an employment income top-up for essential workers making under a certain amount of money.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you, Minister, for the response. Time is precious, so I'm going to go right into my next question.

With respect to the disability advisory group, there are some groups of Canadians who will be disproportionately impacted by the pandemic. I'm pleased our government is taking significant steps to help vulnerable persons during these difficult times. For some with disabilities, their underlying medical conditions put them at greater risk. In addition, many still face discrimination and barriers in accessing information, social services and health care. For others, the need for self-isolation and physical distancing creates additional challenges. Can you tell this committee what steps our government is taking to support Canadians with disabilities during this incredibly challenging time for them?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

A short answer, if you could, Minister.

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

We established our disability advisory committee. We issued a statement reassuring everyone of their right to equal access to health care. We are working with provincial/territorial ministers responsible for disability. My colleague, the Minister of Health, and I have written the letter to P/T health ministers outlining some of the issues being faced by people with disabilities in our health care systems. You'll see in our student measures that we have an increase to the student benefit for students with disabilities. We know the GST credit will disproportionately favour people with disabilities.

We are doing a lot and we're trying to put a disability lens on everything we do to make sure this group of Canadians are included and see themselves in our response.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you.

Ms. Chabot, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Good afternoon, Madam Minister. Thank you for joining us.

You have talked about the CERB, but I am going to turn to the Canada summer jobs program. An extension has been granted, which was welcome, because the financial year has to close. However, we have heard that it is supposed to create 76,000 jobs, in addition to the 40,000 jobs that we already have difficulty filling.

How do you intend to do that?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

The Canada summer jobs program creates about 70,000 jobs for young Canadians. Yesterday, we announced additional investments to add 76,000 jobs for those young people. We are developing employment programs for young Canadians and we will expand them to ensure that young people can find jobs that provide them with appropriate experience for their careers.

We are aware that young Canadians do not know what they will be doing this summer. So we would like to let them know that we support them and that we are there for them. These programs, and the Canada emergency response benefit for students will help them gain good experiences during the summer.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Going back to Canada summer jobs program, without the 76,000 additional jobs you are talking about, we had to do a no-cost exercise, because, despite the expansion of the measures, we had the same budget. Each member of Parliament had to work with priority lists, including those that we added, while keeping exactly the same budget.

Which program will the 76,000 new jobs come from, and how will they be funded?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Thank you for your question.

Yes, indeed, we asked members of Parliament for a lot in the Canada summer jobs program. We wanted to respond to the crisis situation and to provide jobs linked to essential services.

There are jobs in the youth employment strategy and the work-integrated learning program.

Mr. Flack, have I left any programs out?

[Graham Flack]

Yes, there is the program on which MPs have done a wonderful job, as some employers' needs have changed. The department has a series of programs to place people in direct jobs involving other departments. That is what the minister spoke of earlier. We want to invest another $50 million to place students in the health and agricultural sectors and to help them gain experience with Canadian businesses. So it's a series of programs, in addition to the ones you talked about. These programs were delivered by other departments.

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Thank you.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

You mentioned an additional $50 million in programs related to health and agriculture. These employment sectors are under provincial jurisdiction. As you know, agricultural work is very important. Furthermore, some seasonal foreign workers have not yet arrived in the country.

At home in Quebec, the provincial government has launched a program to attract young people to agriculture. Will tourism, for example, be part of it? Will it be helpful and beneficial to provincial efforts, or will it hamper them?