Human Resources Committee on May 4th, 2020

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the witnesses.

My first question is for Mr. Preston. The NDP have wanted the government to bring forward a universal direct payment. That way people with disabilities, seniors and all sorts of people would not be left out. We're now trying to plug the holes and the gaps through CERB, the student program and so on.

The government decided not to, and we have CERB. Last week in the House of Commons we were able to get the government to support the unanimous motion to ensure that seniors and people with disabilities get benefits at this time to help get them through COVID-19.

I wonder, to that end, whether you have any specific recommendations as to what the government should do.

[Dr. Jeff Preston]

Yes. When we're talking about funding specifically, I think it's absolutely critical we get money into people's hands to allow them to be able to direct their own care and to put the money into the places that are important to them. Historically, whenever governments have tried to direct care for people, to direct how or what types of care they require, they often fail at that because disability is simply not a monolith.

I think empowering people to be able to use the funds to get the things they need at the times they need them is absolutely critical. This means not just literally things like masks and gloves, but also being able to hire people to go get groceries and pick up medication from the pharmacy, to do those things that unfortunately many of us took for granted before this happened.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you.

One of the things that we've also been discussing, of course, is that some provinces are clawing back some of the emergency benefits, so we have an uncoordinated approach across the country.

In order to make sure that people actually get the support they need and not have it clawed back, should we set national standards for this unprecedented situation? I know that normally we don't intervene in terms of provincial or territorial jurisdictions, but there's a question that's going on in my mind. In this unprecedented situation with a national pandemic, is that something the federal government should be entertaining?

[Dr. Jeff Preston]

Yes. I maybe feel safer saying this when I'm in my own home here in London, Ontario, and not in Ottawa where I can be found out, but the experience of disability in this country is radically different from province to province. Depending on what province you live in, your experience of impairment is completely different. I think in a situation like this, a global pandemic, leadership from the top is absolutely necessary. We need to ensure that people with disabilities are not falling through the cracks, whether they are in P.E.I. or whether they're in British Columbia.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much. I appreciate that.

Ms. Robson, as we head into wanting to think about post-COVID, we're still in a situation where people are still social distancing, still unemployed. I'm not quite sure that by June things will be back to normal, to what “normal” would be in this period.

If it is required, and it may well be required, that the benefits continue until such time as social distancing is not an issue, is there something you would advocate for the government to proceed with?

[Prof. Jennifer Robson]

Thank you for the question.

I think it's going to be clear that for people who have applied for CERB and have received four payments in a row, by June they will have exhausted the 16 weeks of the maximum entitlement. Some number of CERB recipients, we are hopeful, will have been rehired by an employer using the wage subsidy. There will be many others who won't be and we do need to continue to be able to provide supports for them.

As I've mentioned, mothers will be particularly disadvantaged if child care and education facilities do not reopen fully until September—we hope. They will need continued support.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you.

In this situation, right now my office is being inundated with emails from people who are falling through the gaps. Take, for example, the small business community. The government has tied the commercial rent subsidy to landlords. Some landlords don't have a mortgage, so they're saying this program doesn't work for them. Others are saying they don't want to deal with the paperwork and don't want to deal with the government, so they're not proceeding. There's no incentive to get landlords to support their tenants with this program.

Should the government be looking at changing the program so that the commercial rental assistance would go to the small business owner as opposed to going through the landlord? Should the requirement that it be tied to a mortgage be waived?

[Prof. Jennifer Robson]

If I understand correctly, the existing program was designed as the result of bilateral negotiations between the federal government and provincial governments, because of course regulation of rent is a provincial jurisdiction. This is a little outside of my area of expertise, but if I understand correctly, there are other avenues of support that the government has put in place for small businesses. It might be interesting to know whether those who are unable to receive the emergency rent assistance because of the conditions or circumstances you described are able to access the other small business supports, and if so, if there's some avenue there for providing some support.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I'm just going to cut in.

My constituents—and I literally have thousands of emails from them—are saying they cannot. Sole proprietors, for example, are still struggling. They do not qualify for the loan. This will continue, so I think it is in our best interests that the government help small businesses survive this time, because if they don't, the road to recovery is going to be that much more difficult for all of us collectively, for Canada as a whole. I get it that—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Kwan. We're past time.

First of all, to all of the witnesses, thank you so much for being here and thanks for staying on.

To the support staff, thank you for staying on.

I detected some frustration over the amount of questioning time we were able to have with these witnesses. I suggest that if there are any we wish to invite back, they may be willing to come back. That might form one of the topics we will discuss on an informal call with representatives from each of the parties before we meet again on Friday.

With that, thank you to my colleagues. Have a wonderful evening.

We are adjourned.