Human Resources Committee on May 4th, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Madam Clerk. I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number eight of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities. Pursuant to the orders of reference of March 24, April 11 and April 20, 2020, the committee is meeting for the purpose of receiving evidence concerning matters related to the government's response to the COVID-19 pandemic.

Today's meeting is taking place by video conference and the proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website. The webcast will always show the person speaking rather than the entirety of the committee. In order to facilitate the work of our interpreters and ensure an orderly meeting, I would like to outline a few rules to follow.

First, interpretation in this video conference will work very much like in a regular committee meeting. You have the choice at the bottom of your screen of either “floor”, “English” or ”French”. In order to resolve sound issues, please ensure that you are on the English channel when speaking English, and on the French channel when speaking French. I would specifically ask for the witnesses to take note of that. If you plan to alternate from one language to the other, please also switch the interpretation channel so it aligns with the language you are speaking.

Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name, and when you are ready to speak, please click on the microphone icon to activate your mike. I remind you that all comments by members and witnesses should be addressed through the chair.

It's the same rules with respect to points of order. Members, if you have a point of order, please indicate so by unmuting your mike and identifying yourself. If you wish to speak on a point of order that has been raised by someone else, please use the “raise hand” function.

When speaking, please speak slowly and clearly. When not speaking, your mike should be on mute. As you've heard during the sound check, the use of headsets is strongly encouraged. If you have a microphone on your headset that hangs down, please make sure it's not rubbing on your shirt while you are speaking.

If any technical challenges arise, for example in relation to interpretation or if you are accidentally disconnected, please advise the chair or clerk immediately, and the technical team will work to resolve them. Please note that we may need to suspend during these times as we need to ensure that all members are able to participate fully.

Before we get started, can you all click on your screen in the top right-hand corner and ensure that you are in gallery view? With this view you'll be able to see all of the participants in a grid view and it will ensure that all video participants can see one another.

With that by way of preliminaries, I would now like to thank the witnesses for joining us today. From the Foreign Agricultural Resource Management Services, F.A.R.M.S., we have Ken Forth, president. From the International Longevity Centre Canada, we have Margaret Gillis, president; and Kiran Rabheru, chair of the board. Also, from the Migrant Workers Centre, we have Juliana Dalley, staff lawyer.

I understand that our witnesses have some opening remarks.

Mr. Forth, please proceed. You have the floor for 10 minutes.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

On a point of order, Chair, before we begin—and it just wouldn't be one of our meetings if I didn't start with a point of order—I would make just a quick note that certainly while we understand that the Minister for Seniors has a very busy schedule and we appreciate her correspondence, we are of course very disappointed that she couldn't be here today. We've had all of the other ministers appear before us, and we're eager and anxious to see her as well, so I would ask, please, that we continue to work to get her here as soon as possible.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

We will do so. We've been assured that your disappointment won't last long, so we'll continue to persist.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

Just on that note, the House of Commons, as a point of information and I guess a point of order, asked us to respond as quickly as possible. While we do so, we have to be a cabinet and have to be in front of the policy processes as parliamentary secretaries, as well as cabinet ministers, and that's what's delaying her appearance in front of the committee. She's trying to respond to the House's request to get the legislation and the package for seniors prepared as quickly as possible, and she doesn't want to miss another day of doing that.

She'll be attending as soon as she can, but she also takes the charge from the House of Commons very seriously.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you.

Mr. Forth, you have the floor for 10 minutes, sir. Please go ahead.

You need to unmute your microphone, Mr. Forth.

We're going to move to Ms. Gillis from the International Longevity Centre Canada, and we'll come back to Mr. Forth once we get the technical issues resolved.

Ms. Gillis, you have 10 minutes. Please go ahead.

[Margaret Gillis, President, International Longevity Centre Canada]

Thank you for this opportunity to speak with you.

I'm Margaret Gillis, president of International Longevity Centre Canada, which I'm going to refer to as ILC Canada. It's an organization that advocates for the human rights of older people, and we are part of a 16-country global alliance and are partnered with the LIFE research institute at the University of Ottawa.

Attending with me today is Dr. Kiran Rabheru, chair of the board of ILC Canada. He's a professor of psychiatry at the University of Ottawa and a geriatric psychiatrist at the Ottawa Hospital.

We are here today to study our government's response to the COVID-19 pandemic. Like many Canadians, I am grateful for the unprecedented teamwork we have seen across party lines here in Parliament, and between the federal, provincial and territorial governments, placing the needs of Canadians before partisan and jurisdictional politics. We are also grateful to have HUMA pause to reflect and seek some initial views from Canadians in response to the COVID-19 crisis; however, this is but a first step in what we believe should be a longer process.

We all know that older people have been the most severely impacted group worldwide in this crisis. We know that the rights and contributions of older people are often overlooked, both in politics and in practice. Canada needs to take a leadership role in rectifying the horrible treatment of seniors during the pandemic through, among other actions, the sponsorship of the United Nations convention on the rights of older persons, which would work towards ensuring that older persons' rights are not ignored.

While it is vital to be vigilant right now, it's premature to think that narrowly focusing on Canada's response in the middle of an evolving crisis will provide us with a full assessment. There will be a need for meaningful and lasting change, and it is probably like trying to build an airplane mid-flight, so we need to continue this and keep it going. We will need a comprehensive process to identify lessons learned, and this process must involve looking at all aspects of the COVID-19 crisis. We're talking here about prevention, preparedness, response, where we are now and recovery.

The challenges we are facing, as illustrated by the systemic problems in long-term care, the rise in elder abuse and the patronizing ageist attitudes towards older people in the press and in our society, have become more visible and urgent during the pandemic. We must embrace this unprecedented reality and boldly move forward to support human rights. We must be jointly accountable for results for Canadians. Instead of pointing fingers, we must all own part of the situation and move quickly to fix it.

We were encouraged by the words of Prime Minister Trudeau when he said, “We need to do better. Because we are failing our parents, our grandparents, our elders—the greatest generation, who built this country. We need to care for them properly.”

Indeed, we do need to do better, and we must find a way forward that reinstates and reinforces Canadian values. It is time to be bold. It is time to embrace the new post-COVID-19 era. Canadians want answers, Canadians need leadership, and Canadians must demand accountability for seniors. Time is everything, and the stars are aligned at this moment for Canada to make the difference.

I would like to use today's discussion to advance ways we can strengthen the rights of older persons to ensure that their lives, health and well-being are not overlooked during and after the pandemic.

As I mentioned, there is no comprehensive, binding international human rights convention for older persons as currently exists for women, children and persons with disabilities. ILC firmly believes that a binding international convention would provide stronger protection for older persons—protections that have been so lacking during the pandemic. We should discuss how a convention could help by examining two important examples of rights: the right to health and the right to affordable, accessible long-term care.

Think for a moment about what we've seen in the last few weeks: older people left to die in their beds without medical assistance, dealing with a virus that results in tremendous suffering; or older people dying of dehydration or malnutrition, or being left in filthy beds. How can this cruel and unthinkable treatment be happening in Canada?

Who can forget the images of family members standing outside long-term care facilities, hoping to get a glimpse of a loved one whom they have not heard about for days, only to hear that they have been abandoned and left to die, unaided, in this most horrific manner?

Is Canada a country that leaves its most vulnerable to die, a country that has left a system so incapable of handling a crisis that it has to rely on the army to rescue vulnerable people? Where are the human rights of those people?

Ask yourself also if we would allow this to happen in our schools, our day cares, our hospitals or any other institution. There's a very basic lesson here, and it is that human rights cannot be an afterthought in a pandemic, or ever. Human rights need to be front and centre in all that we do.

According to the latest data, 79% of the deaths in Canada during the pandemic have occurred in long-term care. We need to call this for what it is: a human rights violation, which is reflective of systemic ageism and the devaluing of importance in contributions of older Canadians. While we can all claim to be saddened over the loss of lives, not many of us can say we are surprised by what's taken place.

You would have to be living in a bubble to miss the multiple reports of abuse in long-term care: the blind 94-year-old woman locked for two weeks in a room full of bedbugs; the sickening murder of eight residents in Ontario, which would have gone on had the murderer not told her pastor; or the multiple reports of choking, beating and neglect that have, in some cases, led to deaths. All these clear human rights abuses took place before the pandemic.

The treatment of older people in Canada is nothing less than a failure of human rights in our own backyard. It is heartbreaking to see how front-line workers have struggled in the most impossible of situations. We need to take steps now to ensure that never happens again.

ILC Canada encourages the Canadian government and all parliamentarians to work together to protect the rights of older citizens by leading the movement for a convention on the rights of older persons. Acting in this manner would go a long way to re-establishing our reputation as a country that values the lives of all citizens. Why? Because a convention would see older persons as rights holders. It would combat ageism. It would allow the public to hold governments accountable for human rights abuses by giving them access to the UN Human Rights Council, and it would educate the public and empower older persons.

A convention would also help to promote and protect the rights and dignity of older persons. The impact of the pandemic has made it crystal clear that policies and mechanisms currently in place are inadequate and insufficient from a human rights perspective. Such actions have had a severe impact on the lives of older people.

We have all observed the changes in attitudes towards people with disabilities, and in the actions taken by countries that have resulted from the Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, which I'm assuming this committee is very familiar with. We are certain that a UN convention on the rights of older persons would have the same positive influence and impact. We call on Canada to lead the convention in order to foster a better understanding of the scope and meaning of human rights for all people.

This move would be in keeping with the long, proud history Canada has in protecting rights at the United Nations. ILC Canada has been at the forefront of the movement for a UN convention. For the past six years we have been working actively at the UN open-ended working group on aging. In doing so we have continually encouraged Canada to act decisively. In 2018, ILC Canada brought forward a petition to the UN to have Canada lead and support the convention. We were very encouraged when the Canadian delegate to the United Nations announced that the door was open to Canadian support, but unfortunately, there's been no movement since. The door's open, and we're hoping that you will step through.

During the pandemic we began a writing campaign to Ministers Champagne and Schulte, asking that Canada lead and support the convention. Our letter was tabled with the committee today. We have been successfully reaching out to other groups. We have had momentum from public and political support, including from prominent Canadians, such as Major-General Lewis MacKenzie, whose letter of support I've also provided to the committee.

We see the opportunity to speak to all of you today as a great sign that there is an openness to make the needed changes to better the lives of older Canadians. We sincerely and steadfastly hope you will support our call to defend human rights for older Canadians.

Finally, honourable members of HUMA, I would like to leave you with three key takeaways.

One, Canada needs to grow and learn from the treatment of seniors in this pandemic. We need to bring about profound and substantive change to such treatment because there is no best-before date for human rights. They begin at birth and end at death.

Two, Canada needs to lead the development of the United Nations convention on older persons. This convention is about fundamental human rights. It is in perfect alignment with our Canadian values, which we all hold deeply.

Three, time is of the essence. We can’t afford to wait to do the right thing for the human rights of older Canadians. We need to act now.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Gillis.

Mr. Forth, you have the floor for 10 minutes, sir. Please go ahead.

[Ken Forth, President, Foreign Agricultural Resource Management Services]

Thank you, Chair and the HUMA committee, for asking me to appear today.

My name is Ken Forth. I’m a vegetable farmer in Hamilton, Ontario. Our family has been farming for many generations. Currently it’s me and my son’s family.

I also serve as president of the F.A.R.M.S. operation, the Foreign Agricultural Resource Management Services. We do the administration and logistics for the movement of 25,000 to 30,000 workers to Ontario, Atlantic Canada and Manitoba.

The fruit and vegetable business is very much a hands-on business. As an example, we have been employing people for over 100 years on our farms. Our farm has been involved in SAWP, the seasonal agricultural worker program, for 50 years, having workers from Jamaica.

The workers who work on the farms mean the world to us, much like family. They come here to help farmers, and for that matter, to help Canada to produce food. The result of their work is that they have a better standard of living back home, including education for their children.

The virus that has engulfed the world is most concerning to everyone. I can assure you that all farmers take this very seriously. There is much oversight on our program for the virus, including Service Canada, provincial ministries of labour and the real experts, the local public health officials and departments.

ESDC came out with a protocol just after the April 20 announcement, and the protocol was satisfactory. It was common sense and it worked for everybody. Most of us have been inspected and scrutinized many times this season through the various protocols. Our employees are very pleased with what they have seen, what they have heard and what we’re doing on our farms.

Let me be clear: We are very concerned that our foreign or domestic employees remain safe. How else could we think? We isolate new temporary workers for 14 days. When working, we stay apart as much as we can. When there is any way we will be any closer, workers wear masks, glasses or face shields. Farmers have gone to extraordinary lengths, not to mention thousands of dollars, to give confidence to our workers that it is safe. Farmers are very inventive, often going beyond what is required. As an example many have placed barriers in bunkhouses and on farm equipment to ensure a safe working environment.

In closing, the Government of Canada, provinces and local health officials should all be proud of the protocol they have put in place in very short order, and the farm community who responded to it. But here's a final word of caution: This has been very paralyzing for farmers. We have done the things demanded of us and beyond, and if we think we can be even better we do that. But we have five agencies scrutinizing us now. Any further scrutiny or add-ons will drive farmers away from this industry—some have already left—and make the job impossible: the job of the production of food for Canada.

We’ve seen the federal government, as an example, have the backs of landlords and multi-billion dollar multinational corporations. We would like them to have the backs of farmers the odd time, and we think we need it now. We are all for the security methods they have put in place to isolate our workers. As an example, on our farms our workers never leave the farm and they don’t want to leave it. They tell me they come here to work. They don’t want to get infected at a shopping mall or whatever. They put in orders to the local grocery store, and the local grocery store has the order ready every Friday. We pick it up and deliver it to them, and they’re very grateful for that. We believe they’re really safe and we believe that farmers are doing a better job than they’re being given credit for.

That’s my presentation to you, Chair.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Forth, and thank you for being so concise.

Next, from the Migrant Workers Centre, we have Juliana Dalley.

You have the floor for 10 minutes, Ms. Dalley. Go ahead.

[Juliana Dalley, Staff Lawyer, Migrant Workers Centre]

Thank you, Chair, and thank you to the committee for the opportunity to appear before you today.

My name is Juliana Dalley. I am a staff lawyer with the Migrant Workers Centre. I'm joining you from Vancouver, on the unceded territory of the Coast Salish peoples. I will be speaking to you today about the impacts of the COVID-19 crisis on some of the most vulnerable workers in Canada—migrant and undocumented workers.

I'm representing the Migrant Workers Centre, a non-profit organization in Vancouver that is dedicated to legal advocacy for migrant workers. Established in 1986, the MWC facilitates access to justice for migrant workers. We provide free legal advice and representation to over a thousand migrant workers each year. We also provide public legal education and do law and policy reform and test case litigation.

Hundreds of thousands of migrants and undocumented workers across the country work in our grocery stores and as cleaners, care workers, truckers, farm workers and in many other occupations. These workers are on the front lines of the COVID-19 pandemic. Migrant workers grow the food we eat and make sure it reaches our shelves. They build our homes, schools and workplaces and keep these spaces clean and safe. They take care of our children, the elderly, those who are sick and those with disabilities. They are some of the heroes that we have been applauding every day.

The COVID-19 crisis has shown how essential these front-line heroes truly are. It has demonstrated the level to which our society depends on migrant workers to perform these low-wage jobs, yet migrant workers are uniquely vulnerable to abuse and exploitation in their employment. Many of them have no means of becoming permanent residents of Canada, as their work is not considered by the government to be skilled enough.

The structure of the temporary foreign worker program renders migrant workers vulnerable to abuse. This is important to understanding the impacts of COVID-19 on migrant workers.

In order to apply for a work permit, a temporary foreign worker must first secure a job offer, employment contract and an approved labour market impact assessment, or LMIA, from a Canadian employer. This process can at times take up to a year. Workers must then apply for a work permit from Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada, or IRCC. The work permit they receive only authorizes them to work for that single employer, in that single job, in that single location. If the worker loses their job, they have to start the process all over again.

It's important to note that migrant workers cannot perform any work to support themselves or their families while waiting for a new work permit to be approved. If they begin working before their work permit is approved, they risk arrest, detention and removal from Canada. This system makes migrant workers uniquely vulnerable. They are unable to speak up about abuse in the workplace or unsafe working conditions for fear of losing their jobs.

Undocumented workers face similar challenges. Many have contributed to the Canadian economy for years, filling labour shortages by working in low-wage and dangerous jobs that are undesirable to Canadians, yet their lapsed immigration status makes them vulnerable to abuse. In addition, they have limited or no access to workers' compensation or publicly funded health care. The COVID-19 pandemic has only exacerbated these vulnerabilities. At the Migrant Workers Centre, we have seen our clients impacted by COVID-19 in numerous ways.

For workers in essential services, including farm workers, they are at a heightened risk of exposure to COVID-19. We have all seen the tragic reports of outbreaks at farms, nurseries and meat processing plants. Many of these workers are migrants or undocumented workers. They are putting their lives on the line so we can eat. Many of them are afraid to go to work, but they can't speak up.

Particularly for farm workers, many of them work in conditions that few Canadians would tolerate. The guidelines published by Employment and Social Development Canada for employing migrant workers during the COVID-19 crisis, in our opinion, do not go far enough to protect these vulnerable workers. I'll return to this point later in my remarks.

On the other hand, many migrant workers are at risk of becoming undocumented because of the COVID-19 crisis. More temporary foreign workers are losing their jobs, and they can't work because they have employer-specific work permits. These workers want to work. We have clients who are health care workers and who want to be on the front lines of this crisis, but they can't. We have clients who want to work on farms, but they can't if they lack the proper work authorization.

Temporary foreign workers who lose their jobs can't renew their work permits easily because they can't secure a new LMIA. Again, the process for applying for LMIAs is complex, long and costly, and many employers are unwilling to go through it, particularly in light of the uncertainty we face due to COVID-19.

If a migrant worker has lost their job due to COVID-19 and still has status, they can apply for the CERB, but if their work permit expires and they lose status in Canada, they will become ineligible for the CERB. If they lose their status, they're in an impossible situation. They can't work to support their families. They can't apply for EI without status. They can't apply for the CERB without a SIN, and they can't leave Canada due to travel restrictions and closed quarters. We have had workers in this situation approach our office, and we have had to tell them that there are no viable legal options for them to work and renew their status or for income support.

We estimate that there are tens of thousands of migrant workers across Canada whose permits may have expired or be expiring since the COVID-19 crisis began. These workers will lose their status through no fault of their own without changes. This will result in many people becoming undocumented. At the same time, we know that employers, particularly in the food supply chain, are facing labour shortages as a result of the crisis. There are solutions. The Government of Canada has the tools to provide relief to the hundreds of thousands of migrant workers in Canada.

I'll now turn to our recommendations.

First, issue open work permits to workers during the COVID-19 crisis. Granting open or unrestricted work permits will allow workers to continue working or return to work in available jobs and to maintain their status in Canada during the COVID-19 pandemic. IRCC should automatically renew work permits to an open work permit during this time or restore workers to an open work permit if they've already lost their status.

Workers with secure status may be less afraid to come forward and report symptoms or to speak up about health and safety concerns in their workplaces. This will reduce the spread of COVID-19. In addition, we know that employers are in desperate need of workers, yet fewer workers are arriving in Canada. Granting open work permits will allow migrant workers who are already here in Canada and who may have lost their jobs to fill these labour shortages quickly and efficiently. This will benefit everyone.

Second, we recommend that ESDC improve its compliance system to prevent abuse of low-wage migrant workers and reinstate in-person inspections. ESDC has a mandate to ensure that employers comply with the regulations imposed on them for hiring migrant workers. However, ESDC has stated that it will not be doing in-person inspections as a result of COVID-19. In our view, this is unacceptable.

It is possible and necessary for ESDC to do in-person and unannounced inspections with appropriate safety precautions. This is a matter of life and death for workers. ESDC has a duty to ensure that workers are kept safe during this pandemic. With no in-person inspection to ensure that employers are complying with the guidelines for hiring temporary foreign workers during COVID-19, we will have a growing public health crisis on our hands. We had seen dozens of cases in our office prior to the pandemic where workers bravely decided to come forward and report abuse to ESDC, only for their complaints to go nowhere. This cannot happen during this crisis. Migrant Workers Centre has endorsed recommendations for improvements to ESDC's guidelines, and we would be happy to share these with the committee.

Third, we recommend that a new permanent residency program for migrant and undocumented workers be created. Even though they are performing essential work that we depend on, many migrant workers such as seasonal agricultural workers, cleaners or grocery store clerks have no way of become permanent residents of Canada. They should be allowed to apply for permanent resident status. If they have lost their status, they should be able to regularize it by applying for an open work permit. For too long Canada has relied on migrant workers as a disposal workforce. This needs to change. If migrant workers are good enough to work in Canada, they're good enough to stay as permanent residents. MWC has written to Prime Minister Trudeau and Immigration Minister Mendicino calling on the government to make these changes.

Finally, we recommend that undocumented workers be allowed to access the CERB. During the pandemic, every worker in Canada should have equal access to the CERB. The CERB should be open to people with an expired SIN, or the government can issue a temporary SIN to anyone who applies by suspending the requirement to prove one's status in Canada in order to apply. This will allow undocumented workers to access the financial support that they need and deserve during this crisis.

These are our recommendations for the Canadian government to both respect and value undocumented and migrant workers during this crisis.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Dalley. You're right on time.

We'll now proceed with rounds of questions, beginning with the Conservatives.

Go ahead, Ms. Kusie.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Gillis, thank you so much for joining us here today. I was actually dumbfounded by the article in The Globe and Mail and your words that “human rights don't have a best-before date”. Unfortunately, it's the second time we've seen a question of human rights in the handling of this pandemic by this Liberal government.

What the Liberals have attempted to do frequently is to pass things such as care in long-term facilities onto their provincial counterparts, but you have mentioned in the media that the lack of uniform standards for seniors' care at the federal level leaves older Canadians vulnerable to both elder abuse and tragedies like the COVID-19 pandemic. Would you like to elaborate on this and how you wish to see additional oversight from the federal government?

[Margaret Gillis]

To begin with, the issue that's happening in long-term care is a perfect example of where we need federal leadership as well as working together with the provinces and the territories. There has to be quite a reckoning around long-term care as a result of what we've seen during the pandemic. It's really important that something very quickly be struck, perhaps a committee that involves FPT folks, along with experts in the area of long-term care. We really have to look at this from beginning to end. This problem is not simply a case of dealing with long-term care.

We have to look at the whole continuum of care, starting with the issue of home care, how that impacts long-term care and how that impacts the hospital systems. All those things are connected, and if we don't look at them together, we won't have a proper solution. Part of that is the federal role with respect to the Canada Health Act, and part of that work would probably have to involve looking at how we can be more effective and efficient, even in terms of funding.

It's a really important area where we all have to work together at all levels of government.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you for that.

Specific to this, in your opinion, has COVID-19 testing in long-term care facilities been sufficient? What could the federal government have done to improve testing in these centres?

[Margaret Gillis]

I think we know there was an issue at the front end of this pandemic in terms of testing. Therefore, “testing, testing, testing” has to be a lesson learned from this, and however we can support the long-term care industry to do that is extremely important.

If you don't mind, might I also flip that question over to my colleague Dr. Rabheru, who is on the front lines?

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Certainly.

[Dr. Kiran Rabheru, Board Chair, International Longevity Centre Canada]

Stephanie, thank you very much for the question.

I just want to set the stage that while this COVID pandemic has really opened up the wounds, or the scabs, shall we say, within our system, we need to go to 40,000 feet and start with the question: Who are we talking about?

If you look around you, I know there's no one sitting with you, but if there were, one out of the three of you will have dementia by the time you're 80 years of age. If you think it's not going to be you, you're in massive denial because it can be anyone. We all know people who have it.

Secondly, we're all getting older. Ageism is very insidious and we are all subject to it, 100% of us. Therefore, we're not talking about someone outside, someone who's from somewhere else, about a virus. It is part of our society.

COVID-19 has just unmasked some of those symptoms that have always been there. Beyond the physical impact of the virus, there has been a substantial increase in non-COVID related issues as well, such as social isolation and the mental and physical disability mortality and morbidity associated with it. There's a lot of work that needs to be done once the pandemic starts to settle, but we really need to look at how we can make our system such that we don't ever have to subject our parents, our grandparents or ourselves in a few years to going through this again. We must do something about this now.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you so much, Doctor.

In addition to that, provincial governments have increased protections for seniors in long-term care homes throughout the pandemic by limiting visitors, providing staff with personal protective equipment and preventing employees from working in multiple homes. Of course, we saw a delay in the closure of borders. Here in my hometown of Calgary, the premier actually had to go to the local airport himself to check out local screening, which was not being implemented by the federal government in good enough time.

Ms. Gillis, should the federal government have intervened so that these steps were taken earlier?

[Margaret Gillis]

This has been a very interesting and unusual pandemic in the sense that this virus has acted so differently from other viruses, so I believe the government was following the advice at the time. We have learned since then that there are many asymptomatic persons who are spreading the virus, which is quite different from what has happened in the past.

Again, this is a very important lesson learned, and it is probably a lesson learned all over the world, not just here in Canada. Everyone was caught off guard by that, but I hope we never will be again.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

I hope so too.

Do you think the federal government should have provided greater assistance to ensure that all long-term care facilities had enough personal protective equipment at the start of the pandemic?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Could we have a short answer, please?

[Margaret Gillis]

While they do fall under provincial responsibility, the point we are making broadly is that this needs to be looked at across all levels of government. It has to be looked at also in conjunction with what the federal government does and in the context of looking at the Canada Health Act.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Kusie.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you, Ms. Gillis.

Thank you, Dr. Rabheru.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you both.

Now we go to Mr. Long, for the Liberals, for six minutes.