Evidence of meeting #8 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was pandemic.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Margaret Gillis  President, International Longevity Centre Canada
Ken Forth  President, Foreign Agricultural Resource Management Services
Juliana Dalley  Staff Lawyer, Migrant Workers Centre
Kiran Rabheru  Board Chair, International Longevity Centre Canada
Jeff Preston  Assistant Professor, King's University College at Western University, As an Individual
Sylvain Lafrenière  Coordinator, Mouvement autonome et solidaire des sans-emploi - réseau québécois
Jennifer Robson  Associate Professor, Carleton University, As an Individual

6:55 p.m.

Assistant Professor, King's University College at Western University, As an Individual

Dr. Jeff Preston

This additional support is absolutely critical, particularly for those who are using or who need staff to help support them. Already for me—and I'm a university professor and I'm paid well for what I do—the costs are going up. PPE is difficult to get, and the costs of those types of things are rising really quickly.

As I mentioned earlier, people are eating up their savings so quickly. Any sort of financial support that can help to cover some of these costs is going to get us another month further down the road safely. The more we're able to do the better.

More funding for support for caregivers also means that they're not going to be required to work in multiple facilities. This is a huge issue right now for some of my support staff who, in order to make ends meet, had to work at multiple different facilities, including my home. That presents a huge viral risk. Paying people who take care of disabled Canadians what they need to survive is going to help reduce some of that risk.

6:55 p.m.

Liberal

Kate Young Liberal London West, ON

Thank you very much. I'm going to share the remaining time I have with MP Vaughan.

6:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sean Casey

Mr. Vaughan, go ahead, please.

We're not getting your audio, Mr. Vaughan.

We can hear your household pets now.

6:55 p.m.

Liberal

Adam Vaughan Liberal Spadina—Fort York, ON

I'm sorry. I'm not sure what happened there.

6:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sean Casey

Hold the mike closer, if you would, please, Mr. Vaughan.

6:55 p.m.

Liberal

Adam Vaughan Liberal Spadina—Fort York, ON

I have birds next to me. I apologize.

The Conservative government in Ontario isn't the only provincial government that has clawed back disability benefits, but would you consider that a human rights violation?

6:55 p.m.

Assistant Professor, King's University College at Western University, As an Individual

Dr. Jeff Preston

It's certainly a question. I think when we look at the ways in which the federal government has tried to support people without disabilities versus the way that we historically have tried to help disabled people across Canada, we need to take a real serious look at the ways in which we are trying to provide support for people with disabilities, both during and after the COVID pandemic.

6:55 p.m.

Liberal

Adam Vaughan Liberal Spadina—Fort York, ON

We've also seen some Conservative commentators make the case that if we make the CERB too lucrative we create a disincentive for people to work. Does that hold true for the disability community?

6:55 p.m.

Assistant Professor, King's University College at Western University, As an Individual

Dr. Jeff Preston

In my experience, most of my friends who have physical or intellectual impairments or mental illness want to work. They want to be productive members of society.

It's actually not because they're receiving support that they're staying home. They're staying home because workplaces are not physically or attitudinally accessible. People see disability on a resumé and you don't even get an interview.

6:55 p.m.

Liberal

Adam Vaughan Liberal Spadina—Fort York, ON

At this time, work can even be dangerous.

For Dr. Robson, then, on this notion of winding down CERB as opposed to elevating it to a universal basic income, why would you recommend winding it down and phasing it out as opposed to moving to a 100% universal basic income, as some have suggested?

7 p.m.

Prof. Jennifer Robson

Thank you for the question.

The policy intent of CERB was to be to give people the economic resources to be able to stay home and to practise social distancing. Given that our employment insurance system did not have adequate coverage for all workers, and also was not able to just logistically handle the kind of demand that it saw, CERB was put in place as a temporary emergency benefit.

The issue of winding down is going to be really difficult. I think I alluded to that in my remarks. What we're trying to do is to think about ways in which we can support workers in returning to the workforce as it's safe for them. The timing of that, the nature of the safety and the constraints they will be facing will be various and varied.

I've previously expressed some concerns, or at least some operational issues, with regard to moving to a universal basic income, because, as I said, we don't have a magic list. We don't actually have a list that is in fact universal. We have set up a system that is as simple as possible and has been able to quickly ramp up to meet demand, yet it still isn't actually necessarily reaching everybody who is in need. It isn't, as we have seen, necessarily a magic bullet. We—

7 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sean Casey

I'm sorry, Dr. Robson. We're well past the time.

Thank you, Mr. Vaughan.

Now we go to Ms. Chabot, for six minutes.

7 p.m.

Conservative

Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB

Mr. Chair, on a point of order, quickly, we certainly all have different home environments that we're dealing with here as we go through this difficult virtual sitting environment, but it is very hard to hear some of the questions and the responses if there is some other type of distraction in the background. I would really ask that all of the members and witnesses, as far as possible.... Again, this is, to use an overly used term, an unprecedented time that we are in, but it is very distracting. It's very hard to hear the questioning as well as the responses with any type of distraction in the background.

It's just a note, Chair. Please, if we could do our best, where possible, to have silence within our background. I am not immune from this. I have children running in sometimes. I do my best to inform my family of this, but if we could, let's do the best possible to limit these distractions, please.

7 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sean Casey

The House of Commons-issued headsets are a big plus as well, but thank you for that point, Ms. Kusie.

7 p.m.

Conservative

Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB

Thank you.

7 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sean Casey

Ms. Chabot, you have the floor for six minutes.

7 p.m.

Bloc

Louise Chabot Bloc Thérèse-De Blainville, QC

Good evening.

I would like to start by thanking the last three speakers.

Personally, I also feel it would be a good idea to extend the session for an hour.

Mr. Lafrenière, thank you for your presentation. You spoke about your fears and the difficulties you have encountered. At our offices, we have encountered the same difficulties regarding eligibility for the CERB and the shutdown of Service Canada locations. We asked the officials about Service Canada, and they told us about all the issues related to the fact that services are only available on the Internet or by telephone. How do you see the resumption of in-person services over the short term?

Ms. Robson also spoke about flexibility with respect to the CERB and the CESB, the Canada emergency student benefit. The Bloc Québécois has proposed a measure to ensure that people do not lose all their benefits when they return to work. I would like to hear your comments on this.

Lastly, could you tell us a little about how you envision reopening and what comes next?

7 p.m.

Coordinator, Mouvement autonome et solidaire des sans-emploi - réseau québécois

Sylvain Lafrenière

First of all, with respect to the Service Canada locations, I must say that I am not a logistics expert. I know that the locations vary in size, but it is possible to open some, at least in most of the mid-sized cities in Canada, because there is a need.

In terms of the impacts of that, I don't know if it is happening everywhere in the same way, but as I mentioned, right now it is impossible for some people to use the Internet because they don't have access to it at home and they cannot go to the usual community centres where they can use a computer for an hour or two. As for the telephone information line, it is only just starting to calm down. However, in the first few weeks, people were calling us constantly to say that they were simply unable to get an answer, despite many attempts, or that they had been waiting for hours on the telephone. The service is inadequate and that needs to be rectified as soon as possible.

Since the government was unable to meet the demand, our groups had to do it. For instance, in the Saguenay—Lac-Saint-Jean region, we sometimes filled out online applications for people by obtaining their information over the telephone. Those are the kinds of repercussions that have affected our groups in a concrete way. So this situation is not easy, especially for our groups, who, like just about everyone else, are working from home. They have had to reorganize at home. The vast majority of them are not even in their usual workplace.

With regard to the CESB, if I understood your question correctly, I would say that we would prefer a measure similar to the one that was finally introduced for the CERB, that is, to take a small amount into consideration. I don't know if it would be $1,000 as it is with the CERB, but if they can prove that they have lost or expect to lose income, we feel that students should have access to it. For them, as I said, it's also an income that will allow them to continue their studies. This issue has not been raised much in the debates. Personally, I have not heard much about it. That whole dimension must be considered as well.

As for what happens next, we certainly need to ask ourselves that question. Although we immediately think of the restaurant sector, which is often mentioned, there are entire sectors that will take time to reopen. There are even sectors we do not necessarily think about that export some of their products. When will they be able to start exporting again? It is all well and good to get people back to work, but will they be able to sell their products?

There may be a long period in which businesses will recall only part of their staff or reduce their work hours. We don't yet know how this will play out, but we need to think about it. I feel employment insurance will play a central role. I do not know how the government will finance the employment insurance fund, but at the rate things are going, if we take the money out of the fund, very soon there will be nothing left. We have to get the program up and running again anyway, and we have to discuss how it will be done. We have to debate it as a society, and we need to invite stakeholders to express their views on it.

7:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sean Casey

You only have 10 seconds left, Ms. Chabot. I don't think it is possible to get an answer in that little time.

Thank you, Mr. Lafrenière.

7:05 p.m.

Bloc

Louise Chabot Bloc Thérèse-De Blainville, QC

Am I done, Mr. Chair?

7:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sean Casey

You only have time for a very brief comment, Ms. Chabot.

7:05 p.m.

Bloc

Louise Chabot Bloc Thérèse-De Blainville, QC

Mr. Lafrenière, you mentioned that it has been 40 years since a comprehensive review of the employment insurance system has been done. While keeping transitional measures in place for the reopening, do you agree that this issue needs to be addressed immediately?

7:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sean Casey

Mr. Lafrenière, I encourage you to provide a written response to the clerk, please. We are out of time.

7:10 p.m.

Coordinator, Mouvement autonome et solidaire des sans-emploi - réseau québécois

Sylvain Lafrenière

All right, Mr. Chair. I understand.

7:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sean Casey

Thank you very much, Mr. Lafrenière.

Thank you, Ms. Chabot.

We'll go to Ms. Kwan, for six minutes, please.