Human Resources Committee on Dec. 10th, 2020

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Flack, and I will be following-up with the committee with respect to that and the questions I had regarding telephone services operated by the department.

I have one final question for the Minister.

I had a constituent come to me recently who had a tragic accident. The individual is disabled. He was an able-bodied person his entire life, and now he's facing this brand new reality. It's obviously been a challenging transition for him since the incident. He was wondering whether you could provide recommendations—and I actually sent you a letter about this, but because I have you at committee, and I respect you, I wanted to ask directly—on where individuals can go if they want to participate in any federal advisory board related to disability issues?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Wow. I'm kind of rubbing my hands together. We're always looking for people to contribute. I'll provide you with some specific options. It might depend on the nature of his disability if we can get him to come through a specific disability group.

One of my team can meet with him, and pick his brain on whatever he would like to contribute. Honestly, we would like to hear from as many people as possible, and absolutely, we'll follow-up with you on that.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

I would be happy to facilitate that, because when he went to the department website, but said he couldn't find where he could go to make a difference, because he's a person with a lot of resources. He wants to help others who don't have those resources, so thank you for that commitment, Minister.

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

I'll reach out for sure.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

And have a Merry Christmas.

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

You as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Vis and Minister.

The last member to pose questions is Mr. Vaughan, for five minutes.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

I have a couple of questions about the letter that went out from CRA. I want to confirm that it wasn't your department that wrote the letter.

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

No. I am responsible for CERB.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

Absolutely. Even when we all get our tax refunds, if we get them, and we get that brown letter with the windowpane envelope from the revenue agency, our heart always sort of skips a bit of a beat. There's a reason for that, often. The language is stern, but the possibility for accommodation is always there.

There are a couple of things I want to highlight and just get your thoughts on. One, this is really about trying to get Canadians to rectify their tax situation to make sure they qualify for CERB so they don't have to repay anything. The advice that's being given by CRA is to do that by December 31 so that you have even fewer problems downstream qualifying. Is that not the intent of the letter, from your understanding?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Absolutely. If you haven't filed, file your 2019 taxes. If you can show us proof of sufficient income in the past 12 months, show us. If you can't and you need to repay, try if you can so that your tax slip will have a lower number on it so that you might be eligible for benefits and credits next year.

Absolutely. It was really a proactive outreach.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

While the incomplete records may be because you haven't filed taxes for two years ago, with regard to the capacity to revise and refile your taxes, especially when it comes to independent income earners, there are expenses that sometimes can be carried over year to year that may allow you to qualify. One piece of advice that is in the letter but that should also be distributed by MPs is to take a look at those options in terms of some of the flexibility that gig economy or self-employed workers enjoy.

In other words, if you file now, you can always revise it later if new information becomes available or new tax law is applicable.

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

You're absolutely right, particularly on the 12-month aspect. You're not wed to just your 2019 tax year. You have the ability to look at the income you received from January to March or April—Graham can clarify this—this year, which gives you flexibility with your income amounts.

Graham, would you add anything—

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

No, I think that's actually enough. We have compressed time here.

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Okay.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

I think part of the communication strategy going forward, because of the anxiety you're hearing expressed by MPs from their constituents, is to make that pathway a little wider, a little clearer and a little bit more obvious to people so that they don't feel like the Grinch is showing up when in fact we're maintaining much closer to Santa Claus on this one than acting like the Grinch.

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Message received. Thank you. I hear you.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

I want to explore another area. As we move toward stronger disability income supports and support for people with disabilities, one of the challenges we had this year was that there is actually no federal database of people with disabilities. That was one of the hurdles we had to clear to get dollars out the door. Also, because of the “gatekeeping” component, as you describe it, of the way that tax credits were designed, we're not getting a full view of people with disabilities.

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

No.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

Is that one of the issues that need to be corrected as we move to stronger income supports?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

That is the issue. That's the fundamental underlying issue. We got the one-time payment out to 1.7 million Canadians, and 22% of our population identifies as having a disability. We absolutely need to look at that and find a way to connect directly with our citizens with disabilities so that we can help support them directly and also test our programs and get some lived-experience feedback, in a meaningful way, for everything we do around disability.

Yes, that's the issue. That's the big nut we have to crack.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

In terms of our approach to income supports, the provincial governments provide the basic support with social assistance, and we support that with their federal transfers for social supports in that regard. But what we're trying to do is create a basket of income supports. Effectively, if you look at them together as a system, you could call it a form of basic income. The challenge is that each program has a separate design strategy. That's what creates the gaps that prevent us from calling it basic income.

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Yes.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

Would it be fair to say, then, that the government is looking at how to knit those together so that we stop creating cracks that people fall between, and that's the movement toward basic income, even though it's not branded as such?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Yes. It would be more than fair to say that. That's what we have to do. We have to harmonize our income supports, as I said, for targeted groups of individuals.

We also have to work with the provinces. They are responsible for disability supports in one way, but if we provide a federal top-up, if you will, and then that's clawed back because of provincial rules, it's not helping the individual. There's a really important conversation, like the one we had on the CCB with the provinces—we managed to move through that—around seeing whatever we do around the disability benefit as an “additional” amount to be received by Canadians with disabilities, not an “instead of” amount. It's not something that can offset their expenses but is really to allow individuals to live a life of dignity; I guess that's how I would say it right now, as we all talk about Bill C-7.