Human Resources Committee on Dec. 10th, 2020

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

That's why we can't move unilaterally.

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Vaughan. That's our time.

Minister, thank you so much for being with us. I do hope you get a chance to put your feet up. You've certainly been front and centre with the measures that have been taken to support Canadians through the pandemic. We appreciate you being here at committee, and we appreciate the work you're doing in the service of your country.

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you so much, and have a wonderful holiday.

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Don't tell the other committees, but you are my favourite committee.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

I really enjoy engaging with all of you, because these topics all matter so much to all of us, and I can tell that by your questions, so thank you.

No offence to the finance committee when I say that, but it's the truth.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Minister.

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Thank you, and happy holidays.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you.

Colleagues, we're going to suspend for about three minutes. We do have two additional officials who are going to connect. In about three minutes, we'll get a chance to pose questions to them.

We are suspended.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

We are now back in session.

In addition to the outstanding public officials who were introduced at the top of the meeting, we are joined by Cliff Groen, senior assistant deputy minister, benefits and integrated services branch, Service Canada, and Elisha Ram, associate assistant deputy minister, skills and employment branch.

Welcome back to the committee, gentlemen. You know the drill. We'll dispense with the preliminaries and get right to questions, starting with Ms. Falk, please, for six minutes.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thank you very much, Chair.

It's nice to see the regulars back at committee again. I feel like it hasn't been very long since I've seen all of you. Welcome back.

I know—and I think we all know—that long-term care facilities have been the epicentre for COVID outbreaks and, unfortunately, for fatalities as well. We do know that residents have faced the harshest restrictions and that health care workers who care for them are definitely experiencing burnout. This is a long time to be asking them to work so diligently.

I think we all know that there was a sector-wide staffing crisis that pre-existed this pandemic, but the pandemic has exacerbated that and has made us notice how urgent that staffing crisis is. I know that in the supplementary estimates there is $12.5 million in funds allocated for “personal support worker training and measures to address labour shortages in long-term [care] and home care”. I'm just wondering if this specific line item is part of the PSW announcement that was in the fall economic statement.

[Graham Flack]

This predates that. This is $12.5 million that was set aside specifically for the program the minister described. That's providing online training for 4,000 support workers as well as work placements, where we pay for the work placements around it. It predates the FES.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

I'm sorry, but for clarification, it pays for the training, or pays for the placement, or both?

[Graham Flack]

Both.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Okay, so what is that $12.5 million...? Or in the economic statement, what is the difference there, then?

[Graham Flack]

Mark.

[Mark Perlman]

I think the economic statement may have referenced that. I just don't have the text in front of me. The $12.5 million that we had has been planned and in the estimates; hence, it's been in the supplementary (B)s for a while. I just have to check the FES on whether it re-mentioned that, but I don't have it in front of me.

Benoît, do you happen to know that?

[Benoît Robidoux, Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Employment and Social Development]

I'm sorry about that.

Yes. It's the same measure that has been restated in FES on funding this program to form 4,000 new personal support workers, and transfers.... It's the same. The total that is going to go to CICan is $23.2 million and the amount is mentioned in two places: one is in Gs and Cs and one is in operations. I think it explains the difference a bit, but it's the same measure.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Okay. Thank you.

In my conversations with the Canadian Support Workers Association, they indicated that they were not consulted on the announcement that happened in the fall economic statement. I think it's very unfortunate that this is the case, because these are people who work on the front lines. They have lived experience, worked experience, and they could probably add very valuable advice to any program that is being created. I guess I'm wondering about it. Was this program informed by any consultations at all?

[Graham Flack]

Yes, and I can give you the context. That's why I'm trying to date the program to when we developed it, which was deeper into the crisis.

Our role obviously is on the training side. That's where we can add value as a department. We were asked to look at the capacities in the post-secondary and training institutions. How much could they take to do short-term training that would address these needs? That's the basis of the proposal—consultations with Universities Canada and Colleges and Institutes Canada to determine what was thought to be the maximum that we would be able to do in that short period.

We had done that months ago.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

In conversations with these groups there was also a concern about a decline in the quality of care that could be a result of compressed, quick training. Is the department aware of this concern? What measures will be built into the funding to ensure that the quality of care is not lessened as a result, so that we get the quality and not just the quantity?

[Graham Flack]

The course is structured on the assumption that we could not initially have people in classrooms—that's the online component—and that we pair it with the placements to get at the quality issue. The placements are like internships where people are supervised. They're not on their own in the placements; they are supervised on the job.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

By somebody else or a worker who's already—