Human Resources Committee on Dec. 10th, 2020

[Graham Flack]

Nothing has been announced. Of course, the government will make the decision and will determine when to make the announcement. However, I can assure you that Mr. Ram's and Mr. Robidoux's teams, who are also online, are working very hard to propose options to the government.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Flack, I have a question about the Social Security Tribunal of Canada. Quebec's major unions told me about their concerns regarding the commitment for the new employment tribunal. There seems to have been a setback. As you probably know, a commitment was made to go back to a three-member tribunal, with terms and conditions. However, some guidelines indicate a setback. This raises many concerns.

Where do things stand in this area? Have you met with the unions as requested? Can we hope for a return to the original plan?

[Graham Flack]

One of my roles is to act as chairperson of the Canada Employment Insurance Commission. To change how the tribunal operates, there would need to be some fairly significant amendments to the legislation.

During the COVID-19 crisis, Parliament didn't sit as often as usual, which caused delays. However, the government didn't announce any date for the introduction of a bill. In short, the crisis prevented a bill from being introduced in Parliament.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

The fact remains that this sent the wrong message. It was still a step forward. However, things seem to be moving backwards in this area. People should be reassured, and things should be clarified.

My other question concerns Canada Summer Jobs. Perhaps my question for the minister regarding this issue was unclear.

Have you ever considered indexing the program to the current year's minimum wage and not to the previous year's minimum wage? Let me give you a basic example. This year, in Quebec, the minimum wage is $13.40 an hour. However, the minimum wage was different last year. This would make it possible to provide a better budget to support projects.

[Graham Flack]

Not all provinces automatically index the minimum wage. When we launch the program and ask the Department of Finance for funding, our only figures will be for the current year and not for the coming year. If all provinces had this automatic indexation, it would be easier to take the indexation into account in a budget request to the Minister of Finance. However, this isn't the case.

I can check with my team to see whether there are other possibilities. The issue is that we can't predict what most provinces will do.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Flack and Ms. Chabot.

Ms. Gazan, you have the floor, for six minutes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you, Chair, and all of the witnesses.

My first questions are for Mr. Flack.

During COVID we've seen groups coming to light that have consistently had to live with human rights violations, but that prior to COVID were often not paid attention to. I have questions about temporary foreign workers.

Could you let us know how many temporary foreign workers in Canada have contracted COVID-19 to date, and in which sectors are they generally working?

[Graham Flack]

Because I came to speak to the supplementary estimates (B), I don't have those figures with me, but I'd be happy to get back to the committee with those.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Okay.

I do have a follow-up question.

[Graham Flack]

May I just point out we don't get those figures directly. The Government of Canada's role with temporary foreign workers is to facilitate their entry. The actual outbreak numbers would be tracked by provincial health authorities, so we get them indirectly, but I'd be happy to track those down and get them for you.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I asked because I am wondering how the employers of temporary foreign workers are being held accountable for not adequately protecting workers from contracting COVID-19. I'm thinking very specifically about temporary foreign workers in Ontario who were working in confined conditions not conducive to health guidelines and have ended up contracting COVID-19.

Are employers being held accountable for not providing conditions conducive to human rights?

[Graham Flack]

In fact, because a pandemic was not something fully contemplated within the TFW regime, we had to develop in real time major changes to the program. That included some additional funding for employers to be able to put additional measures in place, but more directly to your point, it also included putting in place a new penalties regime specific to the types of things you're talking about, with much steeper fines for sanctions.

Some of these things would not have existed before, but they include appropriate distancing and all of the pandemic-related measures for safety. We have rolled that regime out as well in real time, and those sanctions are starting to be applied.

We also had to move, though, to a virtual inspection regime, and this was a real challenge. We were not able, because of local health conditions and the advice of local health authorities, in the initial phases to physically visit many of the sites. The team adapted and developed virtual inspection tools, where video cameras were used to follow...as well.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I asked because I do have many temporary foreign workers living in my riding, and I know some of the stories coming out because of COVID-19 are pretty horrific.

Sorry, but I have many questions for you today. Supplementary estimates (B) 2020-21 allocated over $12.6 million toward personal support worker training and measures to address labour shortages in long-term and home care, pursuant to the Public Health Events of National Concern Payments Act.

We know the COVID-19 pandemic has certainly shown us the importance of care work, as my colleague Madame Falk shared earlier. Part of the reason for this workforce shortage in home care, as you know, oftentimes is related to workers not being paid a living wage, which we know, during COVID, is a wage for people who are often doing dangerous work.

Will these new measures include ways to ensure that care workers are paid a living wage and extra benefits in lieu of the fact they are doing life-saving but very dangerous work?

[Graham Flack]

As you may be aware, the Government of Canada did, through the safe restart agreement, transfer additional funds to the provinces to allow them to top-up wages.

However, I would point out that, under the Constitution, with regard to property and civil rights, the regulation of this sector is the exclusive domain of provincial governments. It would be unconstitutional for the Government of Canada to impose salary levels on the provincially regulated sector. We can only do that on the federally regulated sector.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

But you do have the power to put in place national standards. For example, we're talking about putting national standards in place for child care. Would that not also be true for being able to put national work standards in place for front-line care workers, especially around public health and safety?

[Graham Flack]

In any areas of exclusive provincial jurisdiction, there are limits to how far the federal government can go in setting standards. The more specific the standards are, including something very specific like setting wage levels in provincially regulated jurisdictions, the more outside the federal scope they are.

It's a question of which standards you're talking about, but if the standard is an area of exclusive provincial jurisdiction, there are limits to how far it has gone.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Yes.

[Graham Flack]

That's why the measures the government has put forward have been about providing resources to provinces and giving them flexibility in how to apply them.

For example, the federal government does not have, under the Constitution, the power to legislate wage levels in the provincially regulated sector, which would make up about 96% of the work force in Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Gazan.

You're at time.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Okay, thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Flack.

Next is Mr. Kent, please, for five minutes.

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I'd like to come back, Mr. Flack, to the $848 million that were allocated for the one-time $600 disability payment for those who were certified with disabilities.

Have all 1.7 million cheques gone out, digitally or otherwise, to those who were certified?

[Graham Flack]

Yes. The initial run was automatically generated by the system because we didn't ask anyone to apply. For everyone in the DTC, who already had a certificate in the system—everyone who was a recipient of CPP/QPP in the system and everyone who had a Veteran's Affairs benefit—all of that data was put into the system and an initial payment went out immediately to 1.6 million.

We are estimating that another 100,000 will come in as they get themselves certified, but it could be more. We have extended the period in which they can certify until the end of December. Then we will issue additional payments in January and maybe even into March. That's an estimate and it's hard for us to know how many will.

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Sure and I understand—

[Graham Flack]

[Inaudible—Editor] almost immediately.