Human Resources Committee on Jan. 26th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Give a brief answer, please.

[Henry Wall]

It is a mixture. It could be a bathing service or basic primary care, or it could be to help with food preparation or getting supplies.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Wall.

Thank you, Ms. Chabot.

Finally, we have Ms. Gazan, please, for two and a half minutes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.

Henry Wall, we know the federal government has and continues to systematically and wilfully underfund indigenous services and programs, and frankly, human rights. You spoke about the fact that many people, young kids, have to leave reserves to go to school. We know certainly through the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal ruling, which clearly stated it, that the federal government wilfully discriminates against first nations kids living on reserve. We also know that it has resulted in many kids who become at risk, leaving communities, having to go to school in urban centres.

I was wondering if you could expand on that and how funding these kinds of basic human rights would make a difference in the lives of young people coming from reserve.

[Henry Wall]

I have a really simple and basic solution that's going to make a huge difference in our region, I think, and in many other rural and remote regions. It is that we need to have access to high-speed Internet. By having that, our young people will be able to be in their community and participate in the education system virtually. That is not an option for many of our families, so that is an easy fix in my opinion, and it would go a long way in ensuring that our young people are connected.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Because I have very little time, are you saying if we had access to high-speed Internet in communities, for example, then kids would be able to stay in their homes to get their education and not have to leave their families at a young age to go to school without supports?

[Henry Wall]

It would be an option. If there's anything the pandemic is currently teaching us, I think it's that we should not look at going back to the way things were pre-pandemic. I think this is something that can be acted on very quickly while the infrastructure catches up, but at least it's going to start levelling the playing field by giving access to education to our young indigenous people.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Am I out of time, Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Yes. Thank you, Ms. Gazan.

Thank you, Mr. Wall.

That concludes this panel.

I want to say, Mr. Wall and Ms. Pfoh, thank you so much. Your passion and your expertise are evident and are greatly appreciated by all. This will aid the committee greatly as we approach the end of this study. Thank you for your comprehensive answers and for what you do.

We are now going to suspend for three minutes to allow Mr. Wall and Ms. Pfoh to be on their way and to do a sound test for the next couple of witnesses.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

I call the meeting back to order.

We are continuing our study on urban, rural and northern indigenous housing.

I'd like to make a couple of comments for the benefit of the witnesses. Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. When you're ready to speak, you can click on the microphone icon to activate your mike. Interpretation in the video conference will work very much like a regular committee meeting. You have the choice at the bottom of your screen of floor, English or French. When speaking, for the benefit of the interpreters, please speak slowly and clearly. When you're not speaking, your mike should be on mute.

With that, I'd like to welcome our witnesses to continue our discussion.

We have with us from Atlohsa Family Healing Services, Raymond Deleary, the executive director, and Andrea Jibb, director of community planning. From Co-operative Housing Federation of Canada, we have Tina Stevens, the president.

Ms. Stevens, we're going to start with you for your opening remarks for five minutes.

Welcome to the committee. You have the floor.

[Tina Stevens, President, Co-operative Housing Federation of Canada]

Good afternoon.

I would like to welcome you in my own language, the Ojibwa language. Ainiin.Boozhoo.

Thank you to the chair and the members of the standing committee. I would like to acknowledge the other strong housing organizations that appeared this afternoon before you.

My name is Tina Stevens. I am the president of the Co-operative Housing Federation of Canada. I am an Algonquin and Ojibwa woman from both Kitigan Zibi in Quebec, and Kettle and Stony Point in Ontario. I have resided in London, Ontario, for many years.

I’d like to begin by acknowledging that I join you from the traditional lands of the Anishinabe, Haudenosaunee, Attawandaron, Huron-Wendat and Lenape peoples. This is territory that is covered by the Upper Canada treaties.

CHF Canada is a national voice of co-operative housing. We represent over 2,000 housing co-ops, which are home to a quarter of a million people in every province and territory. For over 50 years, co-ops have provided good quality affordable housing, owned and managed by the community members who live there.

There are three indigenous housing co-ops that were started under the urban indigenous assistance program, and many more indigenous families living in co-ops across the country are valued members of CHF Canada. I believe that housing co-ops provide a safe family environment for members, especially women, to embrace their culture and community, develop and maintain self-respect, respect and fulfill their land stewardship responsibilities for Mother Earth, find employment, access higher education and nurture the seeds for future generations.

CHF Canada and its members are being consistently educated through the expressed truths and reconciliation with indigenous peoples. I'm so very proud of CHF Canada. We're helping make reconciliation possible for co-ops across Canada.

I'm humbled in my capacity to speak to you today about the housing needs of indigenous people. More than 20% of urban indigenous people live in core housing need. For 43% of those who do have housing, that housing is unsuitable or in need of major repair. CHF Canada has made a commitment to meet those needs.

We have two recommendations for the committee. First, we recommend the government reaffirm adequate funding for indigenous co-op housing. As indigenous co-ops mature out of their operating agreements, no program has replaced the rental assistance provided to low-income members. Indigenous co-ops have been forced to sell off units to the market. I know this goes against the goals of all housing providers here today. We cannot address the lack of affordable housing and its long-term goals if we continue to lose units. We collectively can stop any loss by reaffirming adequate funding for indigenous co-ops and non-profits.

Our second recommendation is to support the “For Indigenous By Indigenous” housing strategy. The national housing strategy still does not include an indigenous housing strategy. Again, CHF Canada supports the “For Indigenous By Indigenous” housing strategy released by the Canadian Housing and Renewal Association. Let’s ensure indigenous housing plans are finally a part of the national housing strategy. CHF Canada’s indigenous communities already directly participate in the self-determination in the decision-making process of their housing co-operatives.

Inside my lived experiences as a 12-year-old girl—when my mother moved our family into a housing co-op—through to today as an emerging leader, I have increased my decolonization just by living in a co-op, which is why I give back. We can make this a country where indigenous mothers have the option of safe and affordable housing for their families too. The healing of indigenous people is pivotal. Affordable co-operative housing must be maintained so that families can maintain their connection, and so that the genocide of our peoples is terminated.

Thank you for this time to be able to address you and to share the hope and strength of housing co-ops across Canada that are working to make reconciliation possible.

Meegwetch, meegwetch, meegwetch and meegwetch, in all four directions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you very much, Ms. Stevens.

Next we're going to hear from Atlohsa.

Mr. Deleary, are you good to go, or is it Ms. Jibb?

[Andrea Jibb, Director, Community Planning, Atlohsa Family Healing Services]

I think Mr. Deleary may be having issues with his devices.

I'm going to introduce myself in the Ojibwa language to start.

[Witness spoke in Ojibwa]

Hi, my name is Andrea Jibb and I am a member of the Métis Nation. I live in London, Ontario, where I am the director of community planning at Atlohsa Family Healing Services. I am very pleased to speak to you today.

As mentioned earlier, we represent Atlohsa Family Healing Services. We are an indigenous-led, not-for-profit organization with over 30 years' experience working with the urban first nations, Métis and Inuit population in southwestern Ontario. We provide emergency shelter and a variety of services to the FNMI population.

We've operated Zhaawanong Shelter, which is a violence-against-women-focused shelter for indigenous women and their children, since 1989. Since 2019, we have operated the Alaaxiimwiing Atlohsa resting space, which is a low-barrier shelter for indigenous people experiencing homelessness in London, Ontario. Since 2017, Atlohsa has led the Giwetashkad indigenous homelessness initiative, which is a strategic planning process to address the overrepresentation of indigenous homelessness in our community of London.

The most recent point-in-time count conducted by the City of London showed that we have indigenous people making up 29% of the people experiencing homelessness in our community while making up 2% of the general population.

Atlohsa is located in London, Ontario, in the heart of southwestern Ontario, in close proximity to 10 first nations and in very close proximity to three first nations. It's about 20 minutes away from three distinct first nations communities. Historically, London, Ontario, has always been a hub for indigenous people, so we have a lot of migration in and out of the community.

In October 2020, Atlohsa launched the Giwetashkad indigenous homelessness plan, a strategic plan for addressing indigenous homelessness in our community from 2020 to 2023. It's based on the definition of indigenous homelessness done by Jesse Thistle and on the lived experience of indigenous people experiencing homelessness. We conducted a culture-based and indigenous-led community engagement with over 70 indigenous people with lived experience of homelessness.

The plan is a comprehensive strategy offering suggestions for front-line services, from community capacity building for culturally safe services to systems advocacy. At the core of the plan is the commitment to indigenous-led programs, services and initiatives, as we believe that indigenous people have the knowledge, strength and resiliency to alleviate homelessness for the indigenous community.

However, as we have mobilized at a community level with the creation of the Giwetashkad plan, we've done the groundwork in our community. In attempting to achieve the strategies, we've repeatedly come up against barriers to accessing resources.

In London, despite having numbers on par with many designated indigenous communities under the Reaching Home funding stream, we do not have an indigenous community designation. This means we must compete with mainstream service providers to serve the indigenous population in our community. Today our primary recommendation is to expand the indigenous community designation to include London, Ontario, and other communities. This would make it easier, because we are the sole service provider in London for indigenous homelessness but we receive a fraction of the funding to serve 30% of the population. Until we achieve more equitable levels of funding and discretion over levels of funding, we're going to continue to be underfunded and indigenous people will continue to be overrepresented on the streets.

Indigenous agencies need discretion over funding and consistent funding.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you very much, Ms. Jibb.

I understand that we're still having problems connecting with your colleague, but it seems to me your organization is in excellent hands.

We're going to begin with Ms. Falk, please, for six minutes.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Ms. Stevens and Ms. Jibb, for your testimony.

Ms. Jibb, one of the questions that I thought out in my head and wanted to ask you about is on some of the barriers when it comes to funding. You've listed one already.

I'm wondering if you would care to explain in a little more detail how that's directly affecting your organization, whether it's that people are not able to access services or you're not able to access the service, or it's people getting to you and that type of thing. Also, because you are in an urban centre and you have people coming into your area—and I don't know if you know the answer to this—would you experience the same hurdles that a rural, northern or remote organization maybe would experience? Is there a difference?

[Andrea Jibb]

Thank you for that question. It's an excellent question.

It brings up something really interesting, which is the jurisdictional piece. We live in extremely close proximity to three communities, and we see that migration to and from the communities. The on-reserve community that Atlohsa ends up serving in the urban centre would fall under a rural designation, but then we see a mixture of folks who end up coming in and we have to serve them in the urban setting.

One of the barriers to funding for us as an organization is continuously having to reapply for time-limited funding. That takes a lot of work. As an agency, it takes staff resources to do the work in applying to competitive processes towards achieving these time-limited projects.

With the projects being time-limited, we're not able to do long-range work with folks. For example, on housing stability for someone who's experiencing homelessness, a lot of programs run for up to three years, and when we have staff on sometimes.... Right now, some of my staff are on three-month contract by three-month contract. That makes it really difficult for the participants to have some long-term stability in terms of who their supports are and the relationships they build with people. It also puts pressure on our staff base, because three-month contracts are very stressful for staff.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Yes, absolutely, and very precarious.

What types of services would staff be supplying?

[Andrea Jibb]

We offer a variety of programs, very small starting. We have street outreach. We have rapid rehousing programs. We have two housing support workers, and one of them works out of a supportive housing unit. We also offer the resting space. When I say “resting space”, it's a concept that London has pioneered. It's meant for folks with more in-the-moment behaviour, for people who can't access traditional shelter settings, whether it's due to restrictions, behaviours or substance use—whatever it might be.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

What does your street outreach look like?

[Andrea Jibb]

We've had one street outreach worker. We have the one indigenous street outreach worker in London. Sometimes the street outreach worker might pair up with another worker just for safety so that we have two people on at all times.

Ultimately, the goal of that worker is to go out and build connections with people who are unsheltered and who may not access traditional services or mainstream outreach teams. That's something that we see a lot. A lot of indigenous people in our community do not want to speak to mainstream outreach workers. Sometimes they'll see our outreach workers and ask whether we're such-and-such, referring to the mainstream agency. When we say, no, that we're Atlohsa, they'll say, “Great, we'll talk to you”.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Wow. That's really interesting. I think that's so important too. I think it speaks to building a rapport, especially within the community. Before we can really do anything to help somebody, we need to have that rapport and that relationship. Too, I think that with colonization, situations, issues and bad decisions that have happened throughout history, there is that distrust. It's difficult, especially when you have a social worker, for example, who comes in and who works for the province or the government. They're more unlikely to have that trust. Walls go up, and it's difficult to have a conversation.

[Andrea Jibb]

Absolutely, and especially because street outreach is where so much of the data gathering happens in the community. In London, we use the HIFIS system. We use a shared database called HIFIS, in which indigenous status is tracked. We've had many conversations in the community about how to get accurate data on indigenous homelessness in our community. A lot of that happens through outreach interaction, such as when an outreach worker goes and interacts with a community member who might be unsheltered.

What we hear particularly often is that people are being asked about their identity in a way that may not be culturally safe. We're not going to get good data on indigenous homelessness unless it's coming from that relationship-focused approach in which somebody feels safe to talk about their identity with an outreach worker.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Falk.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

That's perfect. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Jibb.

Next we're going to go to Ms. Young.

Go ahead, please, for six minutes.