Human Resources Committee on Jan. 26th, 2021

[Kate Young, Liberal, London West, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

As the MP for London West, I am so pleased that we were able to get witnesses today from London to talk specifically about some of the issues that we face in our city.

I want to start with Tina Stevens. Tina, we've had a number of conversations. Not only are you president of the Co-operative Housing Federation of Canada but also you're a board member of the Native Inter-Tribal Housing Co-operative.

We've discussed some of the challenges that you're facing. One of them, which you were underscoring in your opening statement, is with seniors and the elders and how they're impacted by aging into care and what happens to them when your co-ops can't continue. Can you go on and explain some of the challenges that the elders face?

[Tina Stevens]

Thank you very much for that question. I appreciate being able to answer that, in the London West area specifically, we do have a number of housing members, specifically in the Native Inter-Tribal Housing Co-operative along with Four Feathers Housing in the city of London. The direct connection between those was that Native Inter-Tribal had families as its mandate. We had to start dealing with the pressures being organized and being impacted by our students and our young children and grandchildren being able to go off to get higher education, leaving the housing unit as basically an empty nest.

As a result of that, Native Inter-Tribal Housing Co-operative was able to take the reins going forward, which involved the organization Four Feathers. Through that, we obtained the federal, provincial and municipal funding to be able to establish that particular housing co-operative, which housed mainly seniors and people over the age of 40. Therefore, a lot of that was then able to benefit the elders and the seniors in our community.

As with all other housing co-operatives and specifically in terms of indigenous needs, there is definitely more of a need, and more housing assistance and more housing need to be created and developed for our seniors, specifically for our elders. We know from the statistics that 85% are living off reserve, in terms of the members from the different communities, and that they're in urban settings. Given that we are dealing with an aging population and trying to deal with their needs, we definitely need to develop more seniors housing and be able to continue to support Four Feathers Housing Co-operative to meet those needs and address the assistance that is directly needed under accessibility and meet other needs in terms of affordability. We also need to maintain their traditions and their ceremonies and have space to do that.

[Kate Young, Liberal, London West, ON]

How do you think an indigenous housing strategy would help co-operatives in Canada, and specifically in London?

[Tina Stevens]

The indigenous housing strategy specifically would have more of a focus placed [Technical difficulty—Editor] diverse. They are quite different from non-indigenous housing communities. To be able to benefit us most, not only to look at the deep, core need of housing that is currently being impacted and felt by many indigenous communities, specifically in urban settings, but also in terms of the services such as Atlohsa, the services by our friendship centres or services like Nokee Kwe.

There are a number of different indigenous organizations in the city of London. They would be able to provide other services. People would be able to connect in a more pivotal fashion, being able to not only service just the indigenous communities but also benefit them as well as their children and future generations in securing affordable housing as well as the safety of having that housing going forward so they can obtain future needs, such as education, future employment or being able to be connected to their own communities located outside the city of London.

[Kate Young, Liberal, London West, ON]

Thank you so much, Tina.

I will go to Andrea Jibb for a moment and ask how COVID has impacted the services offered. I know that hotels have been used, and I know this is a concern. Long term, are hotels an answer for indigenous housing?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Give a brief answer, Ms. Jibb, please.

[Andrea Jibb]

Yes, we have relocated our resting space into hotels. We've been able to completely change the model. Out of hotels, we're able to offer a transitional support model, which long term, is much more effective than emergency shelters for housing stability.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Young.

Ms. Chabot, you have six minutes.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like to point out that my microphone is well positioned.

Thank you both for your statements.

Ms. Stevens, I have a question for you about co-ops. As you mentioned, co-operatives are important, both for seniors and for indigenous people. You talked about funding for co-ops. Could you tell us more about that? As far as we know, housing co-ops are different from low-rent social housing, both in terms of self-sufficiency and management.

Do you have concrete examples of indigenous-specific housing co-operatives?

[Tina Stevens]

Overall within CHF Canada, we service all housing co-ops across Canada. Five of the housing co-ops within Canada are located in Manitoba, and four are located in Ontario. Specifically, we are a member-driven organization that respects the voices, the needs and the decision-making [Technical difficulty—Editor] done by the members who actually live and have lived experiences in the housing co-operatives.

As well as having our own boards that oversee the daily business operations of a housing co-op, we also try to meet the needs of the indigenous members we have, by making sure they are comfortable in being able to live within their own confines, to have the respect and dignity of living within their own confines. That is a result of the principles we live by, which are voluntary and open membership; democratic member control; members' economic participation; autonomy and independence; education, training and information; co-operation among co-operatives; and specifically the concern for community. With all of that, we take care of the business. We are driven by our housing charges. Specifically, those housing charges are communally shared, collectively shared, to be able to meet all the needs of the members specific to each individual housing co-operative.

With indigenous co-ops, we absolutely looked at the seven grandfather teachings and specifically the way that we live inherently. Those mirrored a lot of the values that indigenous people hold in regard to being able to have self-determination and to be in control of the processes and policies within their housing co-operatives.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

So I understand that when it comes to housing, you favour the co-operative model. Is that right?

[Tina Stevens]

Absolutely.

I lived in a housing co-op as a young child. After I ventured out to receive a higher education, I came back to gain proper employment and to have a family. My first choice, absolutely, was to return to the housing co-op environment.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you.

My next question is for Ms. Jibb.

Thank you for your testimony on homelessness, Ms. Jibb. I understand that your organization is the only one that specializes in this issue. You have also developed a plan to address homelessness, and you say that the federal government has a role to play in this regard.

Of course, funding is important, but what specific role do you expect the federal government to play?

[Andrea Jibb]

Thank you for your question, Ms. Chabot.

In terms of the systems advocacy piece and what we envision with our indigenous homelessness plan, the question is “how can we affect the system so that so many indigenous peoples do not experience homelessness in the first place?”

We know there are factors at work. From the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada, the child welfare system is probably the number one producer of indigenous homelessness. How can we advocate not only for financial resources but also to change the systems that produce indigenous homelessness in the first place?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Chabot.

Thank you, Ms. Jibb.

We're going to move to Ms. Gazan, for six minutes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank both of the witnesses, Tina Stevens and Andrea Jibb, for being here.

My first question is a follow-up to you, Andrea, and your comments about the child welfare system.

In my riding, many of the individuals who are experiencing homelessness are from the child welfare system. They are aging directly out of care into poverty and homelessness. We have almost 11,000 kids in care right now, mostly indigenous. My numbers could be wrong; it may be even higher than that.

We've certainly reached a crisis during COVID. We know there are a number of kids in care who received the CERB, and who are now mobilizing together to ask for CERB amnesty. I support them in those efforts.

Do you believe a guaranteed livable basic income would prevent homelessness for kids aging out of care, particularly, if they were provided with housing where they could choose between greater independence or housing with more supports?

[Andrea Jibb]

Yes, a livable income is crucial to ensuring that indigenous homelessness for youth aging out of care does not reach epidemic proportions.

In our team, we often talk about Jordan's principle, and everyone, I'm sure, knows Jordan's principle. It's to address the inequities faced by indigenous children on reserve. We need something like Jordan's principle to truly address indigenous homelessness. We need funding, so that people can have first and last month's rent.

In a community like London, we face levels of housing insecurity and rent costs that are similar to Toronto and Vancouver. It is just not sustainable for people, let alone youth who are aging out of care, to get their own apartment in a way that feels safe for them. We know indigenous youth may not feel safe in a rooming house, or in certain styles of apartments in certain locations in the city where they would be able to afford it.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Let me add to that, and then I will move on to Tina Stevens.

You're talking about youth aging out of care. Another demographic group that is certainly very much part of this is individuals with severe mental health and trauma issues often related to systems such as residential school, the sixties scoop or kids aging out of child welfare.

Why is it critical to have wraparound supports attached to housing? We have heard many comments about its being great to have bricks and mortar, but if you don't provide support, you aren't setting up systems for success. I see this time and time again. I want to hear more of your thoughts on that subject.

[Andrea Jibb]

Wraparound supports are key to housing and stability, because individuals who have been homeless long term often do not have the skill sets or the relationships in place to navigate having and keeping a home. If you have been out on the streets for five, 10 or 20 years, like some of the folks we work with, you don't know about budgeting or how to pay your rent or how to even go to the grocery store. Our staff literally have to go to the grocery store with someone because they have experienced so much trauma that they don't even feel safe going out into the community alone.

Wraparound supports that build life skills are absolutely crucial, especially when considering the definition of indigenous homelessness. For indigenous people, homelessness is not just being without a home; it's being without a community. The history of colonization has displaced indigenous peoples from the land and from our communities, and wraparound supports thus provide the relationships and the trust to keep people feeling safe in their homes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Do you feel that when a housing project is funded, wraparound supports need to be included, yes or no?

[Andrea Jibb]

Yes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you.

I'll move on to Tina Stevens.

I appreciate your contributions around co-op housing. I'm a big fan of co-ops in general, but certainly of co-op housing.

I want to focus specifically on people living with disabilities. As we know, indigenous people living in Canada experience much higher rates of disabilities than the rest of the Canadian population.

Can you speak about the importance of ensuring that the rights of indigenous people living with disabilities are upheld, in housing and otherwise?

[Tina Stevens]

I'm sorry. I'm not hearing anything.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

You didn't hear anything. I'm sorry.

[Tina Stevens]

I'm going to leave the meeting, and hopefully you will accept me back in, please.