Human Resources Committee on Nov. 24th, 2020

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

It's unfortunate, though, because seniors are dying in these facilities. Most of this is because of a staffing shortage that the PSWs, especially in Ontario, have been very loud about. They need that manpower. When we look at the care that's needed for residents in long-term care, the average is four hours a day. In Canada, they're getting 2.6 hours. It's absolutely unacceptable that the people who built this country are not being made a priority.

That being said, Minister, I'm wondering if you have advised your officials to look at the opportunities to leverage existing labour programs such as the sectoral initiatives program, SIP, to address the shortages of staff in long-term care.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

First and foremost, I agree with you that we absolutely owe a debt of gratitude to those who are working in long-term care, and we want to make investments to ensure that those who are able to can scale up to get the skills they need in order to take on these roles, because these roles are very important. We absolutely owe seniors who are at the end of their lives everything, and we should be doing whatever we can to ensure they are properly cared for.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Absolutely. If the money isn't being used under the fund allocation that was specifically for PSWs, have you asked or directed your officials to look at other avenues to make sure we can get staffing in long-term care facilities?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Could you give us a short answer, please, Minister? We're out of time.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

You're asking me questions about things that are under Minister Qualtrough's portfolio. The workforce development piece and training are all under Minister Qualtrough.

We're happy to get back to you with answers and details with respect to those things, but we would be actually reaching out to her ministry in order to get those answers.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thank you. I would hope the government would work as a whole.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Ms. Falk.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Next, we're going to go to Ms. Young.

Go ahead, please, for five minutes.

[Kate Young, Liberal, London West, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister Tassi, for giving us this time tonight, and thanks to the officials from the department.

Minister Tassi, you and I talked about mental health issues on a number of occasions prior to COVID. We know how important it is that people recognize that a part of health and safety is mental health. I was very glad to hear that you're doing even more and that your department is doing more.

Canadians, of course, are facing unimaginable pressures because of COVID, whether professionally or because of finances, and these stresses are going to linger for a long time. You talked about the government being committed to mental health. I'd like to drill down and understand what you have undertaken and what you are planning to do in order to address mental health concerns of workers in all sectors.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

You know that mental health is an area that is extremely important to me. I'm happy that you've raised the question.

COVID-19 has absolutely taken a toll—emotional, psychological and social—on all Canadians. With respect to the mental health piece, when I convened the meeting with labour and industry, concern was expressed with respect to the mental health obstacles and challenges that workers were facing.

On behalf of the government, the Minister of Health introduced the Wellness Together Canada website, which is a good website because through that portal you can do everything, from reaching out and getting an assessment right up to talking to someone. I think that investment was really important and one that I know all Canadians, including workers, can access.

MHCC has put out numbers showing that 500,000 employees each week are unable to work because of mental health challenges, illness or issues. They say the cost to the economy is $6 billion a year. That's what they are saying. I'm happy to see that mental health as part of occupational health and safety is something that is included in my mandate letter. I look forward to moving forward with this particular mandate item because I think that mental health is absolutely a part of overall health. We have to ensure that workers are getting the mental health supports they need.

This is another thing that is a smart investment. In fact, 10 of Canada's largest companies have reported that for every dollar they have spent on mental health, in return they've received $1.62. That is an example of a worthwhile investment, an important investment, a much-needed investment, and at the end of the day employers will gain and benefit if their employees have the mental health supports they need.

[Kate Young, Liberal, London West, ON]

I don't want to state the obvious, but you say that we don't want workers to go to work if they feel sick. I imagine you mean in terms of their mental health as well, because there are people who are actually afraid to go back to work right now and who will be afraid over the coming months and possibly years.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

I believe that mental health is a part of our overall health. This is why it's important that we, as a government, provide supports and resources. In this area, again, the Canadian Centre for Occupational Health and Safety has provided materials. The Mental Health Commission of Canada has also provided materials. I think that these are really important investments because if our employees are healthy and well, we know that employers are going to benefit with productivity and with retention. This is an area that I believe is extremely important, and I look forward to doing more in order to ensure that all workers are healthy and well and get the supports that they need.

[Kate Young, Liberal, London West, ON]

I hope—if I can just sum up—that the federal government will be a leader in this field because if we can show other businesses that this is important, they will take note and realize that they need to understand that mental health means so much to the overall wellness of Canadians.

Thank you very much, Minister Tassi.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Young.

Now it's your turn, Ms. Chabot.

You have two and a half minutes.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you.

Madam Minister, let's continue to talk about occupational health and safety and mental health or psychological health.

I know that this was a concern even before the pandemic, as reflected in your mandate letters. You are being asked to make mental health a specific element of occupational health and safety. I also know that you have been concerned about consulting with unions on these issues. I have heard about it in Quebec, and even from labour market partners.

My question is this, and you've already touched on it quite a bit.

You have budgets for mental health, but they are mainly the result of measures put in place by each of the provinces. In Quebec, the Commission des normes, de l'équité, de la santé et de la sécurité du travail (CNESST) takes care of that. Workers' mental health is increasingly recognized as one of the most significant stress factors, as all surveys show.

How, with additional budgets, are you able to coordinate and support the efforts that are being made in the provinces?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Thank you for that question. I'm very happy to have that question.

First, the federal government has demonstrated the importance of mental health. Prior to COVID-19, there was a $6-billion investment in mental health and providing mental health supports. Actually, I think it was $5 billion for mental health and $6 billion for palliative care and home care. It was $5 billion; sorry, I will correct myself. That was an area where, normally, we were not giving specific money for mental health, but we knew the importance.

COVID-19 has demonstrated this even more. As I've said—and I'm happy to hear that you're hearing that I'm engaging with unions—I have heard in my engagement with unions that this is really important. In terms of my mandate letter and including mental health as part of occupational health and safety, I think this is an important step forward. There is case law now that demonstrates that mental health should be a part of occupational health and the safety for our overall health. I know that, in terms of my mandate commitment, there is a discussion paper that is going out with respect to mental health and a survey, and that's going to be released very soon. I'm talking about within the next two weeks. That is an opportunity for us to get the information so that, as we move forward, if we are spending money, if we are putting supports in place, these are supports that are going to make a real difference in the lives of workers.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Ms. Chabot.

Next is Ms. Gazan, please, for two and a half minutes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

With this next question I just want to speak a little bit about the sick leave. I know that the NDP fought really hard to get 10 paid days of sick leave for anybody who was symptomatic during the pandemic. We know that this is critical if we want to contain the virus—certainly a really critical health and safety issue. Pandemics will occur in the future. That's what they're predicting, unfortunately. With this in mind, will the government be moving forward on ensuring a permanent two weeks of paid sick leave for every worker in Canada as a critical health and safety measure?

I know that many people want to stay home, but they cannot afford to stay home and that places them and others at risk.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Through the $19-billion safe restart agreement, it was understood that a portion of those funds were going to be for those 10 days that, yes, the NDP advocated for and people agreed. You're absolutely right. If someone is sick, you don't want them going to work. You want them to be able to stay home.

In addition to that, under the Labour Code, we allowed job protection for that time. If people are sick, they don't have to worry. It's not only financial support. It's also the fact that they're not going to lose their jobs if they're off. They're taking time off because they're sick, or there are other measures they needed to take time off for because of COVID-19.

We're open to discussions in terms of how we move forward. The issue is really about the pandemic. We've had to work closely with the provinces and territories. This is provincial jurisdiction that we're moving into, and you can appreciate that. The pandemic has demonstrated the collaborative nature, and we can continue to dialogue to determine how we can get to a place that is going to best support workers.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

We know that many workers have become sick during COVID, resulting in permanent physical health issues. In the spirit of being all in, is your government considering implementing a guaranteed livable basic income, particularly for those who want to work but can no longer work as a result of the pandemic?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Ms. Gazan, you'll be happy to know that I have said that a universal basic income is a progressive policy that needs to be looked at. I know it has support from all parties. Having said that, the federal government is offering so many different supports to ensure that no Canadian falls between the cracks. You've heard my position on it. It's something that needs to be considered with further study.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Minister. Thank you, Ms. Gazan.

Mr. Vis, please go ahead, for five minutes.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Minister Tassi, we are very thankful to have you here today.

You said in your opening remarks that the labour program will increase proactive occupational health and safety activities, outreach and guidance, as well as enhanced technical and mental health expertise. Just for clarification, is that related to federal work sites?