Human Resources Committee on May 23rd, 2024

[Carl Nabein, President and Founder, Kids Against Hunger Canada]

Congratulations, Brent. Well done.

My name is Carl Nabein. I'm the founder and president of Kids Against Hunger. It's a humanitarian outreach. It was founded in 2003 and became a registered charity under the Canada Revenue Agency in 2009.

Our food is eaten by all cultures and races. It's completely vegan and was scientifically designed by the giants in the food industry not only to feed a stomach but also to provide a complete day's nutrition and help alleviate starvation-related diseases, such as blindness, spina bifida, etc.

The food consists of rice, which is eaten by all cultures around the world and also has a long shelf life. It has six dehydrated vegetables in it. It has textured soy, which has three times the protein of meat and brings the protein up to 52%, and it has a power pack, which is a vegetable seasoning. It tastes much like chicken, but it has 21 vitamins and minerals specifically designed to alleviate starvation-related diseases in health.

The food can also be cooked in water for 20 minutes to boil the rice, making even slightly contaminated water potable. The food is delicious and can be seasoned to meet any cultural taste and needs. The soy rice casserole is received domestically and not seen as a poverty food. It tastes much like rice pilaf. Youth or children initially offered to pack the food to keep the cost down. This is how the name came about. The food is provided not only to children but also to families in need.

Today in Canada, while a school food program provides a wonderful benefit that has been needed for a long time, the underlying issue is that not only are children in need, but families are suffering and in need as well, and they oftentimes are too proud to speak out publicly about that. That “over-embarrassment” has been what we've noted.

Our original goal was to ship two-thirds of our food to developing countries and to countries in need of disaster relief, with a third being distributed to food banks, first nations and first peoples, the Salvation Army and other places in need across Canada. Unfortunately, given the ever-increasing cost of living and of food, fuel, rent and housing, the need is increasing significantly and growing. Forty-one per cent of our food now—not one-third—is staying here domestically to address this ongoing need.

World disaster relief has also never been greater. There are two current wars going on and many other weather-related disasters. We partner with other Canadian charities to get food to where it is needed, including Cuba, Haiti and Ukraine. Other countries and regions served include nine regions in Africa, 9.5%; the Caribbean, 30%; Central America, three regions, 6.8%; South America, Peru, 2.1%; Ukraine, Sri Lanka and the Philippines, 10.2%.

The demand has never been greater, but as people are struggling financially, they also have less to give. Canada is a very generous country for giving. We are one of the few charities that has no shortage of volunteers, as everyone cares for the hungry. Our biggest hurdle is the shortage of funds. Many people and corporations have less funds for giving, and this is compounded with increased costs of transportation, food inputs and materials.

To quantify our costs, from inception in 2003 to 2011 we were able to keep the cost of a meal to a mere 23¢. In 2014, costs were raised to about 27¢ a meal—still quite well. Then, under recent significant fuel price increases, transportation costs are doubling and a local carrier no longer is able to provide us transportation at no cost because they no longer have the funds to do so. Since 2014, our operating costs have now gone up to 48¢ a meal from the original 23¢ in 2003. We do have enough inventory in stock to maintain that price for this year.

Our charity relies solely on donations. We do not receive funding. Our largest donors have been churches, corporations and service clubs and, believe it or not, schools have been one of our biggest supporters, along with other public events.

The pandemic and resulting lockdowns have affected our growth. We were on the target of about 20% per year, and while we're recovering now, there's greater need, especially domestically. Rising costs of food, materials and transportation have affected us, and there are less community funds available now.

Another thing that I really believe in is a good school feeding program. We'd even like to coordinate with that, and we've offered it to a number of local schools. It's wonderful and would be greatly received. That scratches the surface because that's the end of the chain. Families are struggling as well, and we need to get their costs in line.

Young children work at $20 an hour, and they have no money for fuel because they're spending their money on rent, food and such, so the need goes beyond the schools, but I think helping with the school program is a good portion as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Nabein.

We'll now go to Mr. MacKeigan for five minutes.

[Shawn MacKeigan, Associate Executive Director, Mission Services of Hamilton]

Thanks to the committee for having me.

My name is Shawn MacKeigan. I am the associate executive director of Mission Services of Hamilton. Mission Services is a multi-sector, not-for-profit social service agency located in Hamilton, Ontario. There we support individuals navigating some of the most challenging circumstances they may ever face.

For nearly 70 years we have supported individuals and families by offering a host of services and supports, including those for housing and homelessness, gender-based violence, community-based addictions treatment, youth services and, additionally, we operate one of the largest food security programs in our community, where we support thousands of unique individuals and families each year.

At the centre of Mission Services food security initiative is our Good Food Centre program. This program helps ensure that people receive nutritious and culturally appropriate foods and provides a wide range of items, including fresh produce, dairy, proteins and pantry staples, ensuring a balanced diet for those in need. The Good Food Centre operates as part of the broader food network within our community, although the scale of our service is significant, given that our physical resources include a large warehouse and a sizable food staging and customer service area.

While we recognize and understand the importance of sustaining this vital resource, we are not alone in having observed significant year-over-year increases in the demand for that service. In the past year, we have observed a 30% increase in the number of new service users, and nearly 40% of the total individuals supported through our Good Food Centre are children.

Mission Services also delivers after school youth programs, spring and summer break camps and food-specific programming for youth. These footprint youth programs are tailored for students in grades 6 to 9, where our goal is to empower young people to make healthy choices and to pursue post-secondary education after completing high school while recognizing the important connections between hunger and learning.

A collaboration between Mission Services of Hamilton and Mohawk College aims to create positive attitudes about education among kids who may not believe that post-secondary education is an option for them. These programs offer interested youth in our inner-city neighbourhood healthy after-school snacks, nutritious hot meals, cooking and gardening classes, homework help as well as a large recreational component. The program is youth led and strength based, where we focus many of our activities on mental and physical well-being.

Moreover, Mission Services plays a crucial role in advocacy and community partnership. We work collaboratively with other local organizations, government agencies and community stakeholders not only to tackle some of the most immediate needs but also to help create better conditions to coordinate access to the right supports at the right time and, further, to address the root causes of food insecurity such as poverty, social and structural inequities and access to healthy food.

We understand that the positive impacts of meaningful food security programs on families are profound and multi-faceted. For families struggling with food insecurity, these programs provide a critical safety net that alleviates the stress and anxiety associated with not knowing where the next meal will come from. We understand that this stability allows parents to focus more on other aspects of family life such as maintaining stable housing, pursuing employment and/or educational opportunities and providing a supportive home environment. Children benefit immensely as well, as consistent access to nutritious food supports their physical growth, cognitive development and academic performance. Overall, robust food security programs strengthen families, promote healthier lifestyles and contribute to the social and economic well-being of the entire community.

Together we believe that we can take steps to ensure that everyone in our community has access to the nutritious, healthy food that they need to thrive.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. MacKeigan.

We will now begin questioning starting with Mrs. Falk for six minutes, please.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thank you very much, Chair.

I want to thank each of you for the work that you are doing for our local communities and especially for helping some of the most vulnerable in our country.

We know that the cost of living has been soaring in Canada and that Canadians are finding it very difficult to make ends meet. Just yesterday, Food Banks Canada came out with a report that they have seen a 50% increase in usage since 2021, which is quite alarming. That's a lot of people.

Mr. Nabein, has your organization seen a similar increase in demand?

[Carl Nabein]

Yes. The demand has been going up consistently and pretty much all across the country.

There's enough food to feed everybody, but our limitation is the funding or the donations that we need to get the food to where it's needed. The other thing is that Canadians are all concerned about it, so volunteers are stepping up in droves to help us pack the food, get it distributed and do it at a good cost.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

You said that the food isn't a problem. What about the price of the food? Have you noticed an increase in that?

[Carl Nabein]

Yes, dramatically.... It's a bit of a double whammy. Our food prices have gone up. They've pretty much doubled over the last six or seven years. The cost of transportation.... As I said before, transportation companies were providing us with the shipping of the food at no cost, which they can no longer afford to do due to the increase in the price of fuel. Even the cost of our materials has gone up.

At the same time, we've found that companies and individuals have less funds available to support our charity with donations, so it hits us from both ends.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

That would make sense, given that the average Canadian is paying $700 more on food than they were last year.

I hear from my constituents all the time that the increase in the carbon tax.... On April 1, the Trudeau government raised the tax by an additional 23% in their plan to quadruple it, which ultimately affects the price of groceries and fuel. That falls into transportation when you're transporting any item.

I hear it from farmers a lot when they're transporting their food from the farm, usually by truck, to processing and then to market which, ultimately, the consumer is paying for.

The Parliamentary Budget Officer has confirmed that the average Canadian family is paying more in carbon taxes than they receive in rebates.

Do you believe that getting rid of the carbon tax would help your organization be able to transport food?

[Carl Nabein]

It definitely would help. Just as an example, where our food comes from, the drying by natural gas and things like that uses a large amount of gas. I don't know that they get rebates. Our charity doesn't receive any carbon tax rebate or anything and our costs have gone up significantly.

I was in the United States on vacation and I was actually shocked. The cost of fuel is about half of what it is in Canada. We have a wonderful supply of it, but yes, definitely the cost of fuel has a big impact on our overall costs.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Definitely, I hear from a lot of my constituents, and actually from those who don't live in my riding, too, about just how much the carbon tax is affecting their day-to-day living.

I would note that our party, the Conservatives, has asked the government to remove the gas tax, excise tax and carbon tax from fuel, which would be about 35¢ a litre that Canadians would be able to save for the summer.

It does make a big impact.

On charitable donations, I know that when government—different levels of government; it doesn't matter what level it is—taxes the taxpayer, Canadians actually have less money to spend on themselves and their families for food, extracurricular activities for kids and transportation sometimes to and from work. They also have less time because they feel they have to work more to make their dollar go farther so that they can have more money because the taxman is taking so much. That takes away time that they would have not only with their families, but also time that they may donate to organizations in the communities, whether that's in the schools or with non-profit charitable organizations. That puts a strain on charitable organizations. The charitable organizations then feel they need to rely on government for funding.

I know that this particular piece of legislation that we're discussing today, Bill C-322, really is legislation that would feed the bureaucracy and not actually feed children.

This is another example, I think, of this government and its excessive spending, with zero result, or maybe a little result, but almost none. As has been said today, we know that inflationary spending is already costing Canadians who are having to stretch their dollars farther and farther.

You mentioned, Mr. Nabein, that your organization depends on donations from Canadians, whether that is dollars, time or both.

Have you seen any changes in the levels of donations that your organization has been receiving?

[Carl Nabein]

Yes. The answer is twofold.

The lockdown during the pandemic really restricted us from packing. When we looked into it, we found out that, with social distancing.... It was a necessary and essential service, so we were able to package, but it was a very small amount.

In the meantime, our costs have been affected by everything that's happened recently, with the rising cost of food, fuel, rent, housing, etc.

The donations are coming back. They're growing again, but we're at approximately half of the revenue we were at going into the pandemic. It seems there is no shortage of volunteers, but the number of people able to pay for it has been diminished considerably.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mrs. Falk.

Mr. Collins, you have six minutes.

[Chad Collins, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Chairman.

Thanks to the witnesses for their attendance today.

Mr. MacKeigan, maybe I could start with you.

Some might wonder why any level of government would contribute to food security-related issues. Historically, those services were provided by the non-profit and charitable sectors, starting decades ago in church basements and gravitating to where they are today.

One thing I learned coming out of the great recession of 2009-10 is that governments are needed to assist with food security issues. When I looked to open a food bank back in 2011-12, there were no government supports to be had. I turned to my city council colleagues to open a food bank in my area, and they provided half a million dollars in capital and operating support to establish a pilot program. Your organization helped with that, and you continue to operate that food bank today. I want to publicly thank you for those efforts.

However, I realized that governments really weren't involved. One thing I've learned over the years since that time is that it requires an all-of-government approach to assist with food security issues. Mr. Mansfield talked about support from his provincial government. I just referenced support from my municipal council colleagues, and today we're now proposing federal assistance for the same issue.

Can you talk about the increasing need for government support, especially coming out of the pandemic? We've heard about declining corporate support. Volunteerism is down across the board. Can you talk about the support required from all levels of government to address food security, especially for children?

[Shawn MacKeigan]

When we imagine government support as a not-for-profit provider.... One of the challenges sometimes is raising the level of awareness high enough to encourage people to act or respond. I think governments, regardless of party affiliation, have a responsibility to create the conditions where awareness emerges and to create the conditions for people to respond. I think governments lead in these instances. It doesn't necessarily mean governments run, but governments lead. As well, I think that, when governments lead and those conditions exist, it allows us to leverage the resources we have and find efficiencies in operations. However, we certainly don't have the reach as a single organization to communicate as widely and as broadly as a government.

[Chad Collins, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

I had the opportunity to read Hamilton Food Share's annual report. It said in the report that on any given day in Hamilton, there are approximately 426 children utilizing the services of a food bank.

You talked about the root causes of food insecurity, one of them being housing. We heard some questions about and critique of the national housing strategy today.

Can you talk about the correlation between the need for housing supports and government assistance for this program as it relates to addressing food security?

[Shawn MacKeigan]

To answer that question in the best way possible, I would describe it as an act of coordinating access among the various supports that are required and the providers that are providing those supports.

I'll give you an example. Food security programs often provide headlights, if you will, to housing needs that may have emerged, or may not yet have emerged. When we're engaged with individuals experiencing food insecurity, it allows us to better understand the situation they are experiencing and why they're there.

I can speak in terms of coordinating that access. I think it's very important to understand there are a number of benefits available to individuals and families. Oftentimes, we think about awareness. They are not aware those benefits are available to them. One thing we work hard to do as a not-for-profit provider is ensure people who have benefits available to them understand that those benefits can be accessed and how to access them. We help them understand where those benefits exist. They are there to help ensure housing stability, food security and social cohesion.

[Chad Collins, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Shawn, you heard, unfortunately, the nonsensical narrative that this is about building bureaucracy. You know that we have bilateral agreements with provinces that assist with health care, housing and all kinds of social supports for residents to try to improve their quality of life.

This is one of those instances when we'll look to the provinces and turn to experts like you, Mr. Mansfield and other witnesses who have appeared to ask about how this program should be operated and how the monies should flow through provinces to the experts and service providers that provide and have provided these services for decades.

Can you provide recommendations, very briefly, on how the government should provide that financial support to organizations like yours and others?

[Shawn MacKeigan]

As I listened to the conversation this morning, one thing that came to mind is that food in schools can be easier than we're describing it. In the way that textbooks and computers are very common in schools, imagine for a moment a day when food is as commonplace in a school setting.

Agencies like ours are involved with schools in the neighbourhoods we work and operate in. I can give you an example of one particular program and one particular cohort.

As I said, we support individuals from grade 6 to grade 9. We're only able to support a limited number of students. That program supports anywhere from 12 to 15 students at any given time. The first cohort, or group, of grade 6 students participated in the food security program for the full three years. Each one of the students, who had to navigate some challenging circumstances, graduated from grade 8 with either honours, a scholarship or an award.

Again, it was an inner-city program in a lower socio-economic class, with individuals struggling with self esteem and other individual issues.

I see those outside supportive programs really being able to create those conditions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Collins.

Ms. Chabot, the floor is yours for six minutes.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to the witnesses for your testimony and your dedication to combatting food insecurity, which is bigger than the issue of school food programs. We appreciate all your expertise and your work, which improves our children's quality of life.

I am a nurse by profession, but I was the leader of a large labour organization in Quebec whose members were mainly education workers. The social policies that the trade union movement put forward included equal opportunities for children. We are not all born equal, but I think that guaranteeing that children have the right to healthy food creates greater equality of opportunity. We can see that this is the case in the schools as well: Healthy food also has effects on learning, on academic success, and on drop-out rates. These benefits have been proven. I therefore want to thank you for what you are doing.

Mr. Mansfield, there are groups in Quebec at present like the Chantier pour un programme d'alimentation scolaire universel au Québec, which is part of the Coalition pour une saine alimentation scolaire. There is also the Institut de recherche et d'informations socioéconomiques, which has done studies to justify going even further and having a universal school food program that would not stigmatize children. You have pointed out how important that is. There are a number of possible formulas. The cost of this has been estimated to be $18 billion a year. We understand that it would be a very expensive program.

Apart from that, I have some questions about the bill we have before us. Essentially, you understand that no one can be opposed to healthy food in schools. However, Canada is a vast country and expertise in this area lies at the provincial government level, at least in Quebec, where there is significant public funding, since healthy food in schools is not just supported by community organizations.

How can a national framework law support efforts in connection with healthy school food, which must be the role of the provinces in the first instance, without creating overlaps?

[Brent Mansfield]

I'm sorry, but I didn't get that last little bit. I'm going to answer, and you can tell me whether you need a correction.

Amazing work is happening in Quebec and in every province and territory in Canada. That work is happening with a lot of passion from community organizations and support from municipalities.

What I believe this framework can do, in combination with the funding we now have in place, is to create a truly cost-shared program. You're right that working towards its being universal is going to cost a lot of money. The vision of the Coalition for Healthy School Food has always been for it to be cost-shared among the federal government; provincial and territorial governments; municipal governments—a lot of regional and municipal money has been put into school food programs—the community sector, through such things as the charitable sector and donations; and families. There's a role for families to play. We see that when families contribute, they have an investment in it. It is a broad piece.

The coalition has always been very clear that it needs to be flexible and locally adapted. Every province and every community knows what's best for its community. School food programs in rural Quebec are going to look different from those in Newfoundland or in Vancouver or in Tofino. That is the strength of what Canada is.

I think part of this is bringing communities together to figure out how best to feed and engage their children and how to link in local farmers, fishers and food businesses, because the economic benefits go far beyond the investment. The return on investment in children's health alone pays back those costs. If we look at how we support local food economies and how we integrate all these different pieces, that's a different kind of accounting. I think we need to have a bold vision, like what we have with this framework and like what we have matched with the budget, to really see that the benefits truly go beyond just those for children to include those in the form of thriving school communities and local food economies.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you.

A distinction has to be made between the framework law that is being presented to us here and the investment of $1 billion over five years, or $200 million a year, that was announced in the budget and will be from coast to coast. You were talking about the federal government, and that is what it announced. We were told that there was no connection between the two when I asked the question this morning.

The bill concerns the development of a national framework for establishing a school food program. However, we know that education is the exclusive responsibility of Quebec and the provinces, not only in constitutional terms, but also in practice.

Mr. Mansfield, my question is simple: What amendments would you propose be made to this bill?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Give a short answer.

[Brent Mansfield]

I think I spoke directly to the specific amendments.

This is a partnership, and I will trust all of you to work out how provinces and territories work with the federal government. We need to do this. As a teacher who is in school on the ground, I can say that we are failing our children. It would be a massive missed opportunity to not catch up to all of the other G7 countries by providing an opportunity for students to access healthy food at school and not to learn about that.