Human Resources Committee on May 23rd, 2024

[The Chair (Mr. Robert Morrissey (Egmont, Lib.)), Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Good morning, everyone.

Welcome to meeting 114 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities.

I remind members, please, to avoid feedback from your microphone when you're not using it, keep it in the appropriate area so that the interpreters will not hear sound interruptions, which is harmful to them.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format. Members are appearing virtually as well as here in the committee room.

You have the option of choosing to speak in the official language of your choice. In the room, interpretation is available through the headset. If you're appearing virtually, please click on the globe icon at the bottom of your screen to choose the official language of your choice. If there is an interruption in translation services, please get my attention. We will suspend while it is being corrected.

I remind members to please always direct your questions or comments through me, the chair, and wait until I recognize you by name.

Today, as the committee is aware, pursuant to the order of reference of December 6, 2023, the committee is commencing its study of Bill C-322, an act to develop a national framework to establish a school food program.

I would like to welcome our first witness.

I welcome Mr. Cormier, member for Acadie—Bathurst.

Mr. Cormier, we will begin with your opening remarks. The floor is yours for five minutes.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First, I would like to apologize to my colleagues that I am not able to be with them in the meeting room today. I am dealing with a particularly difficult situation in my riding in connection with the fishery. I would have liked to be with you, but I decided to stay here with my constituents.

I have the honour of speaking before your committee today on the subject of my Bill C-322, An Act to develop a national framework to establish a school food program.

The objective of this bill is stated clearly in its title: to create a national framework to establish a school food program, to ensure that all children in Canada have access to healthy food. I sincerely believe that this is one of the most important pieces of legislation we will be debating during this parliamentary session.

Too many children in Canada go to bed on an empty stomach or start the school day without a nutritious breakfast that would enable them to concentrate on their schoolwork. Do you have an idea of what it is like to try to follow a lesson or do your schoolwork when you are wracked with hunger that prevents you from thinking about anything else?

Unfortunately, this is the sad reality for far too many children. Studies, including the health behaviour in school-aged children survey, have shown that up to one in five young people reports going to school or to bed hungry, often because there is not enough food at home.

The 2021 first nations food, nutrition and environment study by the Assembly of First Nations, the University of Ottawa and the Université de Montréal found that approximately 50% of first nations households have difficulty putting food on the table. Think of that number, 50%.

Those figures break my heart, but we have an opportunity to do something to remedy this situation: by creating a school food program.

Canada is one of the member countries of the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development that does not have a national school food program. We have the power to change that, the power to make sure that fewer children in Canada are hungry and that they have access to healthy food so they have more opportunities to succeed.

The number of children without access to nutritious food in some communities is very disturbing. In my home province of New Brunswick, there is great regional disparity in the number of school breakfast programs, which creates an unacceptable social inequity. Why should some schools have breakfast programs and not others?

We know that students who do not have access to nutritious food are at a significant disadvantage. School meal programs can improve attendance, promote better academic performance, improve health outcomes, and help students achieve their life goals and their full potential.

I want to congratulate all the dedicated volunteers, private sector donors and community organizations that are mobilizing for change. There are many people and organizations sponsoring or supporting school breakfast programs, not just in communities in New Brunswick, but throughout Canada. They cannot do it alone, however, because demand far exceeds supply.

A comprehensive national framework geared at a school food program would make a huge difference. This framework could be a road map for corporations to bring many stakeholders together in pursuit of this common objective. Although many provinces and territories are providing funding for school food programs, they lack the fiscal capacity to ensure that the program reaches every child in need.

We cannot have a program that does not benefit all schools. Every child who needs nutritious food must be able to access it in their school. Bill C-322 has to support the development of a framework that will provide a basis for the discussions to be held all across Canada, be it with provinces, territories, municipalities, first nations, Inuit and Métis, with parents, volunteers, charitable organizations, teachers, students and school administrators, or with experts in the field.

People from the agriculture and agri-food sector will also be involved in developing this framework. We can imagine a program that will not only fully achieve its goal in order to ensure that every child has access to healthy food, but also provide a creative master plan to support farmers and agricultural producers in working toward that goal.

In closing, Mr. Chair, we are not going to achieve the objective of a national school food program overnight. Nonetheless, we will all have mapped out the path to follow in order to get there. We all have an opportunity to make a real improvement in people's lives by adopting this bill and ensuring that every child in Canada has access to healthy food in all regions of the country.

Thank you, Mr. Chair and committee members, and I am ready to answer your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Cormier.

Mrs. Falk will begin.

You have six minutes, please.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

As we know, access to safe and nutritious food is critical to the health and well-being of people, and it's even more so for growing children. The reality is that after nine years of your government, food insecurity is on the rise in Canada, and there are more and more moms and dads who are struggling to put food on the table to feed their children and their families.

Have you been hearing from your constituents about how expensive groceries have become?

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you for your question.

I think families in all regions of Canada are having trouble making ends meet. However, doing nothing but blaming one government or one set of factors amounts to avoiding the problem. In my opinion, when it comes to creating a program like the one I spoke about, a program whose aim is to help children and families, especially in schools, all parties should set politics aside a bit and—

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Cormier. I was just asking if you had heard that groceries have become more expensive for your constituents.

We know we are in an affordability crisis. In the midst of this affordability crisis, your government chose to increase the carbon tax by another 23%. If you're serious about addressing the food insecurity that's happening right now in our country and is growing, how do you justify supporting a carbon tax that is contributing to the rising cost of groceries?

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I see that the Conservative Party probably worked all night on this kind of question. Saying that the carbon tax is the only factor raising the price—

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

Honestly, sitting here as a member of Parliament who works hard all the time, I take issue with an attack that I stayed up all night to formulate my questions. This is pertinent to the bill that we are studying. This is about food for children and the affordability crisis.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mrs. Falk. I'm not sure that was a point of order. It was good commentary.

Mr. Cormier.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In 1981, I was attending elementary school. I was in grade one. There was no gas tax at that time, and there were times when my friends had nothing in their lunch boxes to eat. So constantly saying that the carbon tax is the only thing to blame for the rising cost of goods and services, and even of groceries, is totally unacceptable.

The school food program we want to create right now and the framework I want to put in place are intended precisely to help children achieve their full potential in school. It is not reasonable, in 2024, for Canada to be one of the few countries that has not established a school food program—

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thank you for that.

I absolutely think the carbon tax is contributing to food insecurity in this country. We have to realize, as legislators—

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

You are probably the only one, too.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

—in this place, that our farmers in Canada grow safe, nutritious food not only to feed Canadians, but also to feed the world. They are also an integral part of helping with food insecurity abroad. I think that's very important to note.

We know the Trudeau carbon tax is particularly punishing for our farmers, and it jeopardizes the long-term viability of farms in Canada, which is where we get our food from.

We know Canadian farmers, as I said, provide safe, nutritious food not only to Canadians, but also to those around the world. Why, then, did you vote against Bill C-234, which would have removed the carbon tax for farmers and made food more affordable for families to purchase?

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Farmers are very well aware that climate change is probably what is going to affect them the most over the coming years. It is exactly for that reason that we are taking measures to protect them. In fact, my bill expressly states that farmers and our communities as a whole will benefit from a program like this one.

In fact, last week I was making an announcement with the Prime Minister in my riding, where a farmer in my region supplies fruit and vegetables to a school for school meals. Farmers are very aware that they have a role to play in a program like this one, and—

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Absolutely. They do know that they have a role to play, and they want government to get out of the way so they can do that and fulfill that role to feed Canadians.

I just want to be clear. Bill C-322 does not actually put any food in the bellies of children. What it does do is feed an already bloated bureaucracy. Your government is running the most expensive government in Canadian history, and it's Canadians, unfortunately, who are paying for it, Canadians who cannot afford it and are in such desperation for relief.

In the midst of this affordability crisis, when Canadians are struggling to feed themselves, why would you propose feeding the bureaucracy?

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I hope the witnesses who will be speaking after me are listening to the proceedings right now. The Conservative Party has been opposed to a school food program right out of the box. The Conservatives are telling families and children that they do not want to help them. They do not want children to go to school with full bellies. That is exactly what they are telling Canadian kids and families.

We need to create a school food program like this one to help children so they can achieve their full potential. So say the experts—

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Mr. Cormier, that is not what I am saying whatsoever. I have four small children. I know the importance of feeding children, of making sure that they do have full tummies, so that when they go to school they can have the concentration to be able to learn and to socialize.

What Conservatives are saying is that we don't support feeding the bureaucracy. We support moms and dads having money in their pockets to spend on their children and their families in the way that they see they need to, not feeding it to the government, not feeding it to the taxman, and then the government saying, “This is what we're going to use that money for.”

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mrs. Falk.

Thank you, Mr. Cormier.

We will now move to MP Long for six minutes.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning to my colleagues.

MP Cormier, thank you for this initiative. It's wonderful. If I am correct, we're the only country in the G7 that doesn't have a national food program or some sort of national standards.

Mr. Chair, you know that you always hit a nerve with the Conservatives when you come forth with programs. I mean, the member opposite said it very clearly: Get government out of the way.

At times, we believe that government can come forth with transformational programs that help people, that can change lives, whether it's the Canada child benefit, which the Conservatives voted against, the dental program, which the Conservatives voted against, the national child care program, which the Conservatives voted against, or the national housing strategy, which the Conservatives voted against. I think the track record speaks for itself.

Look, I've been fortunate and blessed to participate at some schools in my riding. Ward 3 in my riding, which is basically uptown Saint John, has over 50% child poverty. If those children don't get a good meal—a good breakfast to start their day—at school, they don't eat, because it's not supplied to them at home. We can drill down as to the reasons, but in the end, there's a very chronic problem here, and there's a need.

The program is very worthwhile. Again, I thank you for bringing it forward. I do have some questions for you, though.

Can you talk to me, MP Cormier, about the main health benefits for students who participate in school food programs?

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you for your question.

The benefits are huge. As I told you earlier, for a child, going to school with a full belly makes a real change, be it in the child's learning, in their concentration, or even in their well-being, with their classmates. Every study done proves that programs like this in the schools in Canada provide real benefits for kids. The same phenomenon is observed in studies done in other countries. Children also do better in their adult lives when they have been well looked after at school.

The best example I can give you is this. One of the schools my children attend has created a program in which a young farmer in the region was offered a parcel of land. He uses that plot to grow vegetables and fruit, which he supplies to the school cafeteria to make meals for the students, who in turn help to plant the vegetables. This initiative educates the children and provides them with healthy food and, as I said earlier, gives them a good start for their day, and this ensures that they will learn better in the long term.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you.

Again, I can speak first-hand about one school's breakfast program that basically had toast and oranges. Another school I went to had a full breakfast. Obviously, the full breakfast was the better program.

Can you speak to the disparity that does happen between schools and how this bill will rectify or help change that?

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Chair, as I said in my introduction, there are, for example, some schools in New Brunswick that the government funds with some money to have a breakfast like that, but there are also some other schools in New Brunswick that don't get that money. The federal government coming in with more money to help more schools, providing breakfast and lunch and snacks to those schools, will be very beneficial for not only New Brunswick but all the schools in Canada.

If we want to have something that will benefit all the children in Canada, we need to have some kind of universal program so that all schools and all children have the same access across Canada. This is why we are coming in with $1 billion over five years. This will be done in collaboration with the provinces and territories. A bilateral agreement will be done. We're not asking for a dollar for dollar, for the provinces to put in. We're asking the provinces to tell us what their needs are and how we can help more kids have breakfast, lunch and snacks in our schools.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Is there data showing that school food programs influence academic performance? Is there a correlation there?

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Yes, there have been a number of studies on the subject. The witnesses you will be hearing later will tell you more about that, I believe. Studies have shown that putting programs like this in place in the schools would improve children's learning and well-being as well as their relationships with their classmates.

Those benefits have a knock-on effect in their adult lives. These kids do better in life because they have had a good start in school. Studies have proven this for several years now. It is time for Canada to set up a program like this in all schools in the country.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

You have four seconds, Mr. Long.