Evidence of meeting #4 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was vote.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:15 a.m.
The Clerk
I would ask that Mr. Ruff repeat his amendment, please.
11:15 a.m.
Conservative
Alex Ruff Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON
I so move what Madame Chabot had already introduced as a potential amendment to the amended motion.
11:15 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
Madam Clerk, when you have the clarification, please read it slowly into the record so that committee members know what we're discussing and possibly voting on.
11:15 a.m.
The Clerk
I'm looking for clarification from the committee as per the—
11:15 a.m.
Conservative
Alex Ruff Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON
Mr. Chair, I'll interject, and Madame Chabot can intervene if I'm getting this wrong. It's that Minister Gould appear for one hour on Monday the 31st, and officials for the second hour.
11:15 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
That's clear. Thank you, Mr. Ruff.
Madam Clerk, could you read that back, when you have it, to the committee?
Madame Ferrada, do you have a comment while we're waiting for the clerk to clarify?
11:15 a.m.
Liberal
Soraya Martinez Ferrada Liberal Hochelaga, QC
I'll wait for the clerk to read the amendment again. I just wanted to make a comment on the amendment.
11:20 a.m.
The Clerk
The amendment as proposed reads, “That the officials appear in front of the committee for one hour on January 31, 2022, and also public servants of Service Canada on January 31, 2022, for another hour, on the subject of the processing times that exceed the goal of a 30-day service standard for responding to Canadian employment insurance claimants at Service Canada.”
11:20 a.m.
Conservative
Alex Ruff Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON
Chair, that isn't what I moved. I specifically moved that the minister appear for one hour on Monday the 31st, and officials for the second hour.
11:20 a.m.
The Clerk
Can Mr. Ruff kindly submit that in writing to the committee, please?
11:20 a.m.
Conservative
11:20 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
Mr. Ruff is doing that because there seems to be some confusion between what's being recorded and what Mr. Ruff said.
I will go to Madame Ferrada and then Madam Zarrillo.
Do you want to talk about something, or wait until we have clarification on the exact amendment that Mr. Ruff is putting forward?
11:20 a.m.
Liberal
Soraya Martinez Ferrada Liberal Hochelaga, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I understood what my colleagues Ms. Chabot and Mr. Ruff proposed.
I would like to come back to the amendment that was originally put forward and that was adopted by the members of the committee. It also reflects the willingness to take time at the next committee meeting to talk about committee business.
Indeed, there are many other issues that we look forward to studying, such as housing, health, disability care and benefits, and labour shortages. There are still many other issues that we need to study, so we need to balance the work of the committee and allow time for other studies as well. Having officials for an hour will allow us to deal with this issue, which is extremely important, I would remind you, but it will also allow committee members to discuss the next study to be undertaken. I hope we will have time to discuss it next Monday.
For that reason, I cannot support my colleague's amendment.
11:20 a.m.
NDP
Bonita Zarrillo NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I will wait to see what the decision is, but I just want to bring up that I've seen in the past many things that have happened in committee, not just this committee but in other committees that I've watched, that have been outside of the procedure book or have been out of order. For example, I've seen in this HUMA committee in the past where the mover of a motion has amended the motion and it has been accepted even though it wasn't in order, and it moved forward.
It just shows how difficult it is for group decision-making tables to question things that they know are incorrect or out of order.
On this one, I'm not going to say that I know the book. It's right here, and I don't have the time to look at it, but when a motion gets moved to the floor and an amendment happens, the amendment gets dealt with before the motion. If there's a subamendment, that would be dealt with, but I've never seen a motion come to the floor, an amendment comes—and I'm not disputing that there wasn't a subamendment or that it wasn't addressed—but then on that main motion we haven't voted on yet we get another subamendment. I just have to say that I'm uncomfortable with the on-the-fly stuff we are doing right now and I think that's why we ask that things come to the committee with 48 hours for true consideration.
I'll just revisit the fact that this is a very serious situation. There is critical need for EI recipients to receive their entitlements when they are expecting them, and the technical and potentially fraud-related problems with their distribution must be resolved immediately. It is my understanding, from briefing notes, that ESDC is aware of this, has begun implementation, and has committed “to support clients on a priority basis when their benefits have been impacted as a result of identity theft.”
I'll also note for people who might be watching this meeting who are wondering why we are going back and forth on procedure when they haven't received payments for months, please, if you are a victim of this fraud, please make a phone call to the police, to the Canada Anti-Fraud Centre, to the two national credit union bureaus, including Equifax and TransUnion, and also to your banks and creditors to report the fraud.
I will also reiterate at this point that it seems to me to be reasonable to get answers to the question of how to get people the benefits to which they are entitled and that we do have competing priorities in this committee that I'd like to get to.
Thank you.
11:25 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
Thank you, Madam Zarrillo.
Next is Madame Chabot, and then Madam Kusie has her hand up.
11:25 a.m.
Bloc
Louise Chabot Bloc Thérèse-De Blainville, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
If we want to talk at length about what is happening today procedurally, we can also wonder about the fact that had to make the committee wait to check the outcome of a vote.
Of course I will support the amendment that I was ultimately not able to put forward myself, and I thank my colleague for proposing it for me.
I don't agree with the reason given for opposing the proposal. Some people think it will be terrible if we don't spend an hour on Monday, January 31, at the committee's first regular meeting, studying the motions put forward by each party. Personally, I am much more concerned and troubled by the fact that people are without income because they have been waiting for their EI benefits for about 15 weeks or even for seven months.
As I said in my presentation, the world will continue to turn even if the committee doesn't take an hour from its January 31 meeting to discuss members' motions. If the committee feels that it is more urgent to discuss these motions than to deal with known problematic situations, then we will simply have to add an hour to the committee meeting or meet as a subcommittee to do an initial sorting of the motions, as we have already done. There are different ways of managing our schedule.
In short, speaking to our motions shouldn't be more important or more urgent than hearing from a minister and her officials on an issue where Canadians are waiting and appealing to us.
11:25 a.m.
Conservative
Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to make sure that all committee members are clear that now that we have voted on the amendment, the original motion has been dismissed. The original motion no longer exists now that we have the amendment. I want to make sure that all members are clear on that.
I also want to say to people who are watching, to anyone who is watching out there, if you are a victim of this problem that we seek to address, then you will want your member of Parliament to ensure that they get the ministers here, the people who are at the highest level, to ensure they have these responses for you, as a citizen and as a victim. Make sure—demand—that your member of Parliament is calling for the ministers.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
11:25 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
Thank you, Madam Kusie.
Madame Chabot, your hand is up. Do you want to speak? No? Okay.
With that, I'm going to ask the clerk to read—so we've got it right—Mr. Ruff's subamendment. Or is it an amendment?
Go ahead, Madam Clerk.
11:30 a.m.
The Clerk
It's an amendment to the motion as amended.
11:30 a.m.
The Clerk
Right now, Mr. Ruff has moved that the motion be amended by replacing the words “officials appear in front of the committee for one hour” with the words “committee invite the Minister of Families Children and Social Development to appear for one hour before officials”.
11:30 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
Mr. Ruff, is this okay?
That's good.
So that we're all clear, again, we're voting on an amendment to the motion as amended.
Again, Madam Clerk, read it one more time, and then we're going to a vote.