Human Resources Committee on Jan. 28th, 2022

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, that doesn't really answer the question.

I guess it comes to your decision, Mr. Chair. It seems to me that the motion that's currently being presented was presented after we voted on the original motion from Mr. Long, and therefore it's out of order. I think we should just proceed, based on how we voted.

[Alex Ruff, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Mr. Chair, on this same point of order, I would offer this: Suspend the meeting momentarily and go back to the record. I clearly heard Madame Chabot introduce her subamendment verbally prior to any vote being called.

I would recommend that we suspend and check the record, Chair, and you'll see that she introduced her subamendment prior to the vote's being called. That way we can put this to bed and make sure we're following procedure.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Ruff.

Before I go to Madame Chabot, I'm going to suspend for three minutes so that I can consult with the clerk.

We will suspend for three minutes. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, committee members. The committee will resume.

For clarification to the committee, I may not have totally heard Madame Chabot's discussion about wanting to move her subamendment. To be clear and fair, the option before the committee is to rescind the vote on the amendment and then we'll go to Madame Chabot's subamendment and let her introduce her subamendment to the amendment.

We'll do that if it's agreeable and nobody is in disagreement.

I see Mr. Ruff's hand up.

It would be my intention to ask the committee to—

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Mr. Chair, it seems to me I asked to speak before Mr. Ruff did.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Okay.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, I asked to speak before you made a decision, which I agree with. I wanted to say to those watching and listening that, in the spirit of cooperation—those were my exact words—I clearly announced that I was ready to put forward a subamendment to the effect that, at the January 31 meeting, we would call the Minister of Families, Children and Social Development to appear in the first hour, and the officials to appear in the second hour. I think that is a very good compromise between my initial motion and Mr. Long's amendment.

Here is the wording of the subamendment:

That the Committee invite the Minister of Families Children and Social Development to appear one hour before officials on January 31, 2022, on the subject of the processing times that exceed the goal of a 30‑day service standard for responding to Canadian Employment Insurance claimants at Service Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Madame Chabot.

We will go to the clerk to be clear, but first I'm going to Mr. Ruff, who had his hand up, and then we'll have Mr. Long.

Go ahead, Mr. Ruff.

[Alex Ruff, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Thanks, Chair.

I just want to make sure it is crystal clear that on page 1006 in chapter 20 of the big green book House of Commons Procedure and Practice, it reads, “When a subamendment is moved to an amendment, it is put to a vote first.”

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Ruff.

The confusion was that, as chair, I did not hear clearly or was not clear on Madame Chabot's intentions, so I have gone back and consulted on that.

Go ahead, Mr. Long.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you, Chair.

The only thing I would say to that.... I know we're debating a subamendment, but I just want to make sure that we don't break precedent.

We voted on the amendment. With the greatest respect—I hold Madame Chabot in the highest regard—Madame Chabot voted on the amendment and didn't once say, “Hold on, where's my subamendment?” That's what I'm struggling with on this. Madame Chabot vaguely mentioned a subamendment, but there were no real specifics to it. She then voted on the amendment and never said another word.

That's what I'm struggling with.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Long.

Go ahead, Madame Chabot.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Mr. Chair, you are probably right that I haven't been alert enough in terms of the procedure for subamendments and amendments. I thought you were going to consider my subamendment. True, I still have some things to learn about procedure. However, that doesn't change the fact that I submitted my subamendment properly. I believe everyone can recognize that. The committee members did not receive the wording of my proposal, just as we had not received the wording of Mr. Long's amendment.

Committee members, given the urgency of the situation, I would appreciate it if you would proceed in accordance with the intent that was submitted.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Madame Chabot.

I will go to the clerk to be clear, but I'm going to ask the committee to consider rescinding the vote it took so that we can then go back and vote in sequence, which would be Madame Chabot's subamendment to Mr. Long's amendment. Then we will vote on Mr. Long's amendment. Then we will return to the main motion as amended.

Do I get agreement from the committee—thumbs-up on that—so that I can get a sense from the committee?

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Chair, I don't think we will rescind it. We did the vote. With the greatest respect, we voted. I personally say that we've already voted on the amendment, so I'm not in favour of rescinding—sorry.

[Alex Ruff, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Chair, as a point of order, I would just offer that we have to be careful that we are not going to start breaking our House of Commons Procedure and Practice here. This is our first committee meeting back, on a Friday, with lots of things going on—an amendment, a subamendment—and it does get confusing, but it's clear from the record. She moved a subamendment. I just think that we should follow the common practice. If it is the will of the committee to defeat that subamendment, then the vote will determine that.

Let's just follow our procedures and we'll get through this. We can finish and we can get on to the business at hand next week, based on the will of the committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Ruff.

I'm going to ask Madam Clerk, is the amendment that was voted on in order?

[The Clerk]

Is that the amendment of Mr. Long?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Yes.

[The Clerk]

It was in order—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Was the amendment of Mr. Long that was voted on in order?

[The Clerk]

The text received was in order in terms of under the mandate and the work of the committee. Is that what you are referring to?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Was the vote in order as well?

[The Clerk]

Well, that is a decision of the chair and the committee as to what it decides to do next.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

I'm going to ask Madame Chabot if she would like to move—so we can clear this—a new motion along the same lines. Then we can proceed to vote on this.