Human Resources Committee on Dec. 5th, 2022

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thanks, Chair.

I just want to go back to some of the non-profits in my riding that had trouble getting through the system. What would you do right now to improve that?

I had non-profits that had to hire consultants, architects, engineers and what have you because they just couldn't navigate that system. What changes could you immediately make with CMHC to help those non-profits?

[Romy Bowers]

I would encourage the non-profits in your area to reconnect with their client representative.

I would also focus on CMHC's working not only with a non-profit but with the provincial and municipal governments to make sure the various housing programs that we have available at the various levels of government are aligned, because I know that for non-profits to make their project work, they need not only CMHC funding but funding from other sources. We can do a much better job of making that alignment happen.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Do your reps get out in the field much?

[Romy Bowers]

We have employees across Canada. I think most of them are in the field all the time, meeting proponents. If they haven't come out to meet the clients in your riding, I'll be very happy to send our staff to them.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Long.

You had 10 seconds left. It's gone now.

Thank you, Ms. Bowers.

To conclude, we'll have a quick question from Madame Chabot and one from Madam Zarrillo.

Madame Chabot, do you have a question?

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Yes, Mr. Chair.

How much speaking time are you giving me to ask my question?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

You have two and a half minutes.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Okay. Thank you.

I have some comments for the witnesses, who are the main people responsible for implementing the national housing strategy programs. In fact, CMHC created these programs.

What should be done as of right now? In view of the strategy's failure, one option could be to change it completely. It's clear that the programs are not flexible enough to allow answers to very specific questions. For example, we don't know how many housing units are available to vulnerable people, how many units are available to persons with disabilities, how many homeless people have been able to get access to a unit, or at what point the objectives will have been met. If we can't provide this kind of information, there's a serious problem.

There are two options: either we continue as we have and make the programs more flexible, or we throw out the baby with the bathwater, which is not an option.

[Romy Bowers]

Mr. Chair, we will continue to take feedback from this committee. We welcome that.

I do not agree with the statement that the national housing strategy has been a failure. It has been a very significant change in terms of the federal government's involvement in housing. We have learned many lessons along the way and have improved our programs. We feel there is more to do, specifically with respect to serving vulnerable populations.

With respect to our reporting, we collect data about the number of shelters built, the number of seniors helped and the number of women who are living in the housing. We can do a better job of providing more granular reporting, and we can do more timely reporting. I'm very committed to doing that in the years ahead.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Madame Chabot.

Madam Zarrillo, you have two and a half minutes.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to agree with Ms. Bowers on the need for purpose-built rentals, as we desperately need that. There were some tax incentives that were promised by the Liberal government that didn't transpire, and I would really encourage the government to think about tax incentives for purpose-built rentals.

I also want to make a note on the rapid housing initiative. I'm not necessarily in full agreement with my colleague. In track one and track two, about 1,300 units have been built, with about 6,500 units—according to the data I just received last month—still being built. They are either in process or still being built, so we have only 1,300 that were built.

I wanted to go back to the comment that has just been made about what we do next to catch those that are being left behind. I'm focused on some of the comments you made around affordability, even in the RCFI, in rentals. Are subsidies and maybe being able to subsidize those ongoing operating rent subsidies the kinds of things that are needed from the government to get people into rental houses and to get people housed?

[Romy Bowers]

With respect to the rental construction financing initiative, this is a 100% loan program. Its aim is increasing the supply of market rentals. In order to decrease the level of rents to make the projects work, you need either greater levels of contribution or rent supplements. Those are typical tools that you need to drive down rents. In addition to that, having free land is also very helpful.

As I mentioned, in order to create affordable housing you need a whole suite of levers to drive down the cost of the housing, given the expense of creating new housing units.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Just on subsidized rentals, is that an ongoing conversation about increasing subsidies? We know operating agreements are expiring. We're losing some of this really affordable rental housing. Is there a conversation at CMHC about wanting to expand subsidized rentals?

[Romy Bowers]

There's the Canada housing benefit. That's the rent supplement program. We call it backward-loaded, as the bulk of the funding is available in the latter years of the program.

The implementation of that goes through the provinces and territories, and we can definitely do greater work with the provinces and territories to make sure the Canada housing benefit gets to those who are most in need.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Madam Zarrillo.

Thank you, Ms. Bowers and the officials from CMHC.

You can see that the frustration came from both sides of the committee room today, but I also acknowledge the compelling testimony that you gave to the committee on the recognition of what must change.

Thank you so much for the detailed information you provided to committee. We have more meetings on this subject.

Again, thank you for being here for the full two hours and taking those questions.

CMHC, you're okay to go.

Before we adjourn, committee members received a draft of the news release announcing the Centennial Flame decision. Can I have an approval for that to go public?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Just as a heads-up, the supporting Black communities report, version two, is complete. It has an amendment from Ms. Ferreri, and it will be circulated later. The labour shortage one is being finalized, so we should be able to get to that.

With that—

Madam Zarrillo.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Mr. Chair, in relation to that, I'm finding that we don't know, with enough notice, who's going to be coming to committee, or what's planned for committee.

Is there an opportunity for this committee as a whole, or for the subcommittee, to sit down and lay out at least the next month? I know we're breaking, but when we come back.... I am finding it difficult to have access to information in the short window that we're given on what's happening on the agenda. Sometimes in less than 24 hours we're told that this is what's on the agenda this week.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

That's valid. Thank you, Madam Zarrillo.

Sometimes it's because we also get short notice that somebody cannot appear, so rather than losing it, we try to schedule something in. However, that is valid. We will sit down—I prefer to do it as a committee of the whole with everybody—and look at what motions are before the committee and put a timeline in place.

However, at this stage the focus is on those two studies and on getting the report and the legislation, Bill C-22, through.

With that, is it the wish of the committee to adjourn?

The meeting is adjourned.