Human Resources Committee on April 18th, 2023

[The Chair (Mr. Robert Morrissey (Egmont, Lib.)), Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

I call the meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 62 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities.

The clerk has advised me that sound for everybody appearing virtually has been tested and we're good to go.

Again, today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House order of June 23, 2022. Members are attending in person and virtually.

Before you speak, I ask you to wait until I recognize you by name. For those appearing virtually, please use the “raise hand” icon to get my attention.

You have the option of speaking in the official language of your choice. If you're appearing virtually, you'll see the icon at the bottom of your surface. Those in the room can use the earpiece. Translation services are provided.

I remind all members to speak slowly for the benefit of the interpreters so that they can understand. If there's a loss of interpretation, please signal me to get my attention. We will suspend while the situation is being clarified.

I would also like to remind you that screenshots or shots in the room are not allowed during committee meetings.

Bill C-35 is an act respecting early learning and child care in Canada. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Friday, February 3, 2023, the committee will continue its study of Bill C-35.

I would like to welcome our witnesses for their opening five-minute statements. I ask that you recognize the five-minute period.

From the Child Care Providers Resource Network is Julie Bisnath, program coordinator.

We will be hearing Mr. Alain Dupuis, Executive Director of the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada, as well as Mr. Jean‑Luc Racine, a representative.

From the Fondation Lucie et André Chagnon, we have Marilou Denault, senior adviser, who is appearing virtually; and Dr. Christa Japel, representative.

We will begin with Madam Bisnath for five minutes, please.

Madam, you have the floor.

[Julie Bisnath, Program Coordinator, Child Care Providers Resource Network]

Hello. Thank you, Mr. Chair and committee members, for this opportunity.

The Child Care Providers Resource Network is committed to the well-being and safety of all children. We are a non-profit charitable organization with a mission to provide information, training, resources and support to those providing child care in a home setting.

For us, child care is the care of a child regardless of who provides the care—parents, grandparents, friends, relatives, in-home nannies or home child care providers, whether licensed or unlicensed, both of which are legal.

CCPRN was pleased to see that the government introduced a national child care strategy, but we feel that the Canada-wide early learning and child care plan is not nearly as inclusive as it could be. Like those who share our perspective, we advocate equitable access, quality child care and parental choice.

To meet the current and expanding demand, Canadian families need all forms of child care to be affordable and accessible. Limiting parental choice to one type of care conflicts with the notion of a universal plan and hinders access. To improve access, the plan must acknowledge home child care, both licensed and unlicensed, as a valuable component of the child care system. Not only does home child care impact expansion, as it is faster and less costly to open, but it also meets the unique needs of Canadian families by allowing them to choose a caregiver with similar values, a shared language or a shared culture. In partnership with their caregiver, a strong bond is established, resulting in a mutually cohesive relationship focused on the needs of the child. We know that family engagement is essential to each child's development.

Home child care also offers flexible hours beyond the traditional nine-to-five model and a continuity of care with one primary caregiver, a feature not available in larger centres. These low-ratio, authentic and nurturing environments are found in communities both urban and rural across Canada.

Championing home child care as a central part of CWELCC would increase access to a diverse array of child care options. It would also support women entrepreneurs, including newcomers to Canada and racialized women. Home child care honours the experiences and unique qualities of these caregivers, many of them early childhood educators, who provide an essential service in their communities, enriching the lives of young children.

With less than 25% of children accessing licensed child care, CWELCC excludes more than 75% of Ontario children and families, including those choosing unlicensed home child care or an in-home nanny, those choosing informal care arrangements with a friend or relative and those choosing to stay at home with their own young children.

CCPRN believes that parents are competent and are capable of making child care choices best suited to meet their child's and their family's needs. Even within the licensed system in Ontario, home child care providers are unable to obtain their own licence. Instead, they are obligated to work under the umbrella of an agency licensed by the Ministry of Education. An option for direct licensing would have an immediate impact on available spaces, allowing greater access for families.

Incidentally, the collaboration between licensed and unlicensed home child care is not a new concept. Several years ago, CCPRN and the Canadian Child Care Federation worked together to develop and deliver a national home child care training program. There are many opportunities for the government to work with all sectors of child care, but by focusing on one preferred form of care, CWELCC promotes inequitable access and allows for the erosion of parental choice. An equity-based lens must be applied, recognizing that not all families or children in Canada are the same. Choice in child care, along with income-based testing, would pave the way for more inclusive and more equitable access.

CWELCC funding agreements need to be flexible and inclusive. Allowing the provinces to transfer funds directly to parents is the most effective and efficient way to achieve these goals. Reducing administrative overhead leaves more money for reduced child care fees for all families, regardless of their choice in child care.

In closing, I would like to share the following two quotes from parents who have chosen home child care. The first is from Dr. Lisa Walker, a clinical neuropsychologist:

Quality in home day care is knowing that your child is in a setting where they have a caregiver who truly cares, who treats the child as they would their own, and who is invested in fostering the healthy development of the child. It is clear to parents when they have a caregiver who enjoys and takes pride in what they do. That passion is then reflected in how they interact with the child, the activities they plan, and the environment that they foster. Quality means parents have the peace of mind of knowing that their child is not only safe but valued. When I found Brenda, I knew that I had found a person with integrity who would provide my child with the kind of quality care I was seeking.

The second quote is from a parent survey:

I plan to stay with our current unlicensed home care provider because the quality of care our daughter receives there is far greater than the care she ever received at the licensed centre. I would love to have access to the reduced fees. Right now I feel as if I have to choose between the quality of care my daughter receives and a more affordable cost of care.

Thank you for your time today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Bisnath.

Mr. Dupuis, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Alain Dupuis, Executive Director, Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada]

Thank you very much. Mr. Chair, ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon.

Thank you for having us.

Thank you for inviting the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne today to testify on Bill C‑35 and to talk about the main issues linked to early childhood services in French. I am here with Jean‑Luc Racine, who is the Executive Director of the Commission nationale des parents francophones, one of our Federation's member organizations.

We are testifying today on behalf of the 2.8 million Canadians who belong to francophone minority communities in nine provinces and three territories. More specifically, we will be speaking on behalf of the 141,000 thousand children aged four years or less, according to the last census, whose right to an education in French in a minority setting is guaranteed by the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedom.

We are here to speak on behalf of the parents of these children, who often have to make wrenching decisions because of a woeful lack of spaces in francophone daycares. In certain places, like Prince Edward Island, you have to wait upwards of three years to get a space.

For too many parents, there comes a time when they can no longer wait. They may decide that one parent stays at home, which makes the family poorer and furthers inequality between men and women. What happens most often is that the parents have to enrol their child in an English‑language daycare. They make that choice, which isn't exactly a choice, because they have no other options, and it is during the most crucial period for the development of their child, when they are acquiring a language and a sense of identity.

Even if both parents are francophones, there's a high likelihood that the child who goes to an English‑language daycare is more at ease speaking in English than in French when he or she starts school. In many cases, in order for that child to succeed at school, he or she will have to pursue their schooling in English. Imagine the feeling of failure that francophone parents feel because they haven't been able to ensure that their child will grow up in French.

The lack of early childhood services in French is therefore a barrier to the exercise of the constitutional right to education in French in a minority setting. It is a contributing factor to assimilation and by the same token, it constitutes a threat to the future vitality of francophone minority communities.

As I have stated, there are 141,635 children who are entitled to an education in French in a minority setting. However, the number of authorized spaces in francophone daycares means that only 20% of those children will receive a space. That also means that in 80% of cases, and this goes for thousands of households across the country, parents are having difficult conversations to try and find a solution to the dilemma that I have just described to you.

I will now turn over to my colleague, Mr. Racine.

[Jean-Luc Racine, Representative, Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada]

Why are we lacking early learning services in French? The Commission nationale des parents francophones has submitted a brief to the committee which lays out the problem and recommends some solutions. Basically, the problem lies with the agreements signed with the provinces and territories providing for a national child care program. These agreements do include language clauses, but the provincial and territorial action plans are vague and don't provide much of a framework for access to child care in French.

We are therefore seeing situations such as the one in Alberta, where only 19 out of 1,500 new child care spaces will go to the francophone community. In New Brunswick, the only officially bilingual province, only 300 spaces out of 1,900 will be set aside for francophones.

As it is currently drafted, Bill C‑35 will worsen existing systemic inequalities. We know that that was not the intention of Parliament nor of the government. We know that you want what is best for our children. That is why we are counting on the committee's collective wisdom to make the seven amendments to the bill that we recommend in our brief.

Our three main requests are the following: recognizing official language minority communities in the preamble, the definitions and other parts of the bill; including in the funding guidelines specific provisions for the establishment and expansion of child care services in French in nine provinces and three territories, excluding Quebec; and providing for representation of minority francophone communities on the national advisory council. These amendments will give a voice to francophones in all their diversity and ensure that francophones will be taken into account when decisions are made concerning early childhood services.

The federal budget that was tabled a few days ago explicitly recognizes that our two official languages are not on an equal footing and that the demographic weight of francophone minority communities is being eroded. Thanks to this bill, you, as parliamentarians, have the ability to change the situation for an entire generation of francophone children. It is vital that you seize the opportunity.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Racine.

Who is speaking for the foundation?

[Marilou Denault, Senior Advisor, Communications and Public Affairs, Observatoire des tout-petits, Fondation Lucie et André Chagnon]

That's me, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Ms. Denault, you have the floor.

[Marilou Denault]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank the committee members for inviting me to take part in your study. I am Marilou Denault and I am the Senior Advisor for Communications and Public Affairs at the Observatoire des tout‑petits. I am accompanied by Christa Japel, associate professor with the Départment d'éducation et formation spécialisées of the Université du Québec à Montréal, who will be answering your questions along with myself.

Today, I will share with you the Observatoire's two biggest concerns about the current situation in Quebec, which highlight the importance of some of the bill's guiding principles. We believe it is essential to ensure the quality of services offered throughout the network by using quality standards that are scientifically recognized, and also to improve access to good quality child care services for the very young and the must vulnerable. I will now explain in more detail why these are concerns.

Our first concern is to ensure the quality of services offered. Studies show that child care services can have a beneficial impact on child development and help reduce gaps in development between children from more privileged backgrounds and those from lower-income backgrounds when they start school. However, in order to see that positive impact, child care services have to meet certain quality standards. Given the haste to create spaces in order to meet the needs of families, we would like to remind you of the importance of using recognized quality standards that have been documented in scientific literature.

Currently, two things could, in our opinion, threaten the quality of services that we offer very young children. Firstly, the required training for educators seems to have been reduced by measures that are meant to help ease staffing issues. I am referring to qualified temporary replacement staff, who only need to complete 25 of the 91 training units on childhood education techniques. And yet studies show that educators who are better trained are more sensitive to the needs of children interact more with them and provide better care and a variety of educational activities that are age appropriate.

There is also the issue of staff turnover, which has come out as one of the main concerns of parents in Quebec in a recent study done by the Institut de la statistique du Québec. Studies show that children who have been exposed to more frequent staff changes interact less with adults and will get lower scores in language skills tests.

Our second big concern is improving access to services for the most vulnerable children. We all know that many children are waiting for a space, indeed in Quebec alone 32,000 children are currently on waiting lists. We believe that some children are worthy of special attention, i.e., children from underprivileged backgrounds, children of immigrants and those that have special needs. These children are doubly vulnerable, because they are the ones who are living in conditions that are more difficult and would benefit more from quality child care services. Unfortunately in Quebec, these are the same children that often find themselves in daycares where the services are of lesser quality. These children and their families face geographical, financial, linguistic and administrative hurdles, to name a few. For example, services are sometimes not adapted to the needs of a handicapped child, or opening hours don't meet the needs of a parent who has an atypical schedule and works evenings and weekends. We believe it is essential to take these hurdles into account within existing daycares, but also for any new spaces that will be created.

We would also remind you that working within the community and with community organizations are proven strategies that allow us to better reach vulnerable families. These families have difficulty accessing child care spaces, which means their children change daycares often, which has an impact on the quality of the relationship that the children develop with the educators, the sought-after stability that is very important for a young child. Moreover, according to a survey done in Quebec, once these children reach school age, those who have been to three or more daycares are more likely to be vulnerable.

In conclusion, we hope that the challenges described today will be taken into account by the committee in its study on Bill C‑35. I would like to finish by highlighting the need to invest in the development of nonprofit services over the next few years. The networks that will be set up by the provinces must also have quality indicators and provide proof of the efficiency of the strategies used to reach vulnerable families.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Denault.

We will now open the floor for questions. I will ask each member to please identify the person they're directing their questions to.

We'll begin with Ms. Ferreri for six minutes.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to all of our witnesses who are here at HUMA to discuss Bill C-35. There's a lot to learn and a lot to take in and consider as we strengthen this bill and try to close the gaps.

I'll start with Ms. Bisnath.

I found your testimony quite interesting. I know there have been a lot of parents crying publicly, both metaphorically and literally, because they cannot access child care. They've likened getting a space in $10-a-day child care to winning the lottery.

You talked a lot about the way the bill, as currently written, is non-inclusive. There are kind of winners and losers. That's perhaps an unintended consequence of the bill, but it's what's happening. If you don't have a spot, you just don't get access to child care. We've had multiple families sharing that they actually cannot go back to work. Women actually can't go back to work. It's actually hurting women more than it's helping women.

You spoke about women entrepreneurs, winners and losers, non-inclusivity and including everybody in the choice. One of the major push-backs I hear is concern that children are not for profit and that by opening up this bill to include everyone, people will profit from children.

Can you expand on that concern from some people in the sector?

[Julie Bisnath]

Thank you.

From our perspective, home child care providers who are independent or unlicensed and not part of a not-for-profit or licence system are not making a profit; they're earning a salary. It's two different things.

They're not bringing in so much money that it's a profit. They're self-employed. They're entrepreneurs. They're making a livable wage—a salary—doing work that is meaningful to them and to their community. They are providing services to the children in their areas and neighbourhoods. Yes, they are earning an income so that they can be self-sufficient, economically independent and support their own children and their own families.

In that sense, if we could find a way to include these home child care entrepreneurs, perhaps with direct licensing or some other mechanism, it would open access to so many families to be able to have a spot under the CWELCC plan.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

I agree with you in what I've heard. Thank you for that.

I'm curious about what you know in terms of the wait-lists. Are there any that you know of that have people looking for child care who can't access it? When we look at the capacity, that seems to be a major consequence of this bill. It's increased demand when there were already wait-lists to start with.

[Julie Bisnath]

For the most part, that's out of our realm of experience. We don't really keep track of wait-lists for licensed child care, or for any child care.

I can say that I talk to parents regularly who are looking for child care, who are desperate for child care and who are looking at any avenue to find care that they need for the child. I see through social media and in talking with the public and with people in our network that they're searching months and months in advance and sometimes still cannot get a spot. Here in Ottawa and in other places across Ontario, access is very limited.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you for that.

If I may, I'll come back to your quote from, I believe, a neuroscientist—the doctor.

[Julie Bisnath]

Yes.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

It was about the quality of care. I think that's one of the big concerns for people if we open it up or try to put forth an amendment to include more. Right now, it is an exclusive bill. Whether it's intended to be or not, it's just cutting out a lot of people.

How do you assure people that the child's welfare and safety, both physically and psychologically, will be a priority if you open it up to all child care providers and let parents choose what's best for their children?

[Julie Bisnath]

We feel that the home child care providers are accountable to the parents and to their communities. Parents know what kind of experience their child is having. We know that good quality and poor quality exists in all sectors, just as in all professions, and that a licence doesn't necessarily equal quality child care.

Quality is so much more than just a piece of paper or a checklist; it's the relationship that's formed between the parent and the provider. It's this partnership that's based on mutual respect and centres around the care of the child.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you for that.

[Julie Bisnath]

That's how we—

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

I see that I have 30 seconds left. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I believe it was Ms. Denault who was talking about stability for the child and having those multiple caregivers. You can see the cross-section here with what Ms. Bisnath is saying on these providers. You can see that there is the ability to have stability too, if you are investing and opening up that access.

As well, I want to touch on Jean-Luc and Alain. Thank you for your testimony as well. It was insightful, I think, to hear about the unintended consequences of the access to care.

Thanks to all of you for being here, and thank you for your advocacy for this bill.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you.

Ms. Saks, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank the witnesses who are here with us today.

Mr. Racine, Mr. Dupuis, how important is it for francophone minority communities to have access to child care and early learning services in Canada, especially in French?

[Alain Dupuis]

It is absolutely crucial, in fact. The ability to be francophone and to continue to be francophone in all provinces and territories in Canada is contingent upon equal access to daycares in French. We worked hard for the last generation in order to improve access to French-language schools throughout the country. We now have 740 French language schools in a minority setting and our rights are guaranteed by the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. However, in order that our young people may go to these schools, they have to live their first years in French and often, because of a lack of access, they can't do so. The first years of life are incredibly important for language development and French-language acquisition, so much so that if the children don't go to daycare in French, very often they will not go to school in French.

It is therefore crucial, and unfortunately right now, the bill does not specify that spaces in French must be guaranteed equitably in all provinces and territories. There are no guidelines to ensure that the funds transferred by the federal government will go to providing the necessary French-language child care spaces. Over 9,000 French language spaces are needed in the country. The bill provides a framework for this new program which has been hailed everywhere in the country, but it must be more specific as to objectives and funding obligations for French language daycares in the various provinces and territories. We also have to include the voice of minority francophones on the national advisory council in order to set the tone for all the policies that will follow this bill.

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Racine, do you have something to add?