Human Resources Committee on April 21st, 2023

[Beth Deazeley]

We make a number of suggestions in the brief that can help to support retention. While we don't currently collect specific reasons that people are leaving the field, I can assure you that we consistently hear from members and stakeholders that the major drivers of attrition include things like wages and working conditions. It's low wages, split shifts and a lack of benefits to support their own and their family's well-being.

As you noted, there is a distinction across different practice environments in terms of the quality of support that's available to educators, as well as chronic understaffing and under-resourcing of programs that can leave them feeling burnt out. In terms of solutions, wages and benefits are obviously a significant component to that solution, but there are also other opportunities to support retention in the profession. They can include things like mentorship and professional development opportunities, and the opportunity to support professional growth and career advancement to make it a profession in which it's viable for educators who are committed to children to stay for an entire career.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Gazan.

This concludes the first round. Thank you to the witnesses for appearing this morning and for providing their testimony to the committee on this important matter. The witnesses can leave while we bring in the final panel.

We'll suspend for a couple of minutes while we transition to the next round.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Welcome back.

The committee will resume its study of Bill C-35, an act respecting early learning and child care in Canada. To assist the interpreters, I remind all members and those appearing virtually to please introduce yourselves when speaking and to speak slowly so the interpreter has the ability to fully grasp what you're saying and interpret it.

You can choose to speak in the official language of your choice. Interpretation services are available. For virtual participants, use the translation icon at the bottom of your Surface. If there is an issue with translation, please get my attention and we will suspend while it is being corrected.

Please address all comments through me, the chair, to ensure an orderly meeting, and wait until I recognize you. Also, please, no screenshots or camera shots are allowed in the room while the meeting is proceeding.

I would like to welcome our witnesses to begin our discussion with five minutes of opening remarks. We have Jennifer Ratcliffe, director of Pebble Lane Early Learning; Maryam Harim, director, Tiny Hoppers Early Learning Centre; and Sibel Cicek, director of government relations, YMCA of Greater Toronto.

We will start with Ms. Harim for five minutes, please. You have the floor.

[Maryam Harim, Director, Tiny Hoppers Early Learning Centre]

Thank you, Mr. Chair and members of Parliament. Good morning.

My name is Maryam Harim. I thank you for giving me this opportunity to speak to Bill C-35. I am a registered early childhood educator who is currently working as the director at Tiny Hoppers, Newmarket South. I was an immigrant who came to Canada 30 years ago, and I started my career as an educator by volunteering at a child care centre.

Today, I stand here in front of you as a woman who raised her three children single-handedly, while working full-time in child care and going to night school. Back to 29 years ago, I was on a wait-list for subsidized child care for my first child. After my maternity leave ended, I was paying through the nose for child care. All the money I made at that time went to child care.

I had my second and third, and I was then approved for a subsidy. All the money was going straight to child care fees. I was on the wait-list, and I kept waiting until my third one was born.

It was a lot of pressure on a single mom, especially when all of my money was going toward child care, food and shelter, leaving aside any extracurricular activities that I wanted to send my children to, like ballet lessons, karate, basketball and swimming lessons.

Bill C-35 is a universal child care bill that is made to be flexible and accessible to all families of young children. I'm really grateful to whoever finally brought this across, because I'm happy that.... Yes, I suffered as a young woman back then, but my children won't. These families, whom I have been taking care of for the last 30 years, are not going to be suffering. They will actually benefit, because children need the kind of care that we've been giving, and they deserve it. They do not deserve to get through it with a second mortgage because they can't afford it.

I've been there and done that, and I'm really happy. It brings tears to my eyes when I look back at my years, but I'm extremely happy for what has gone through.

The idea is to give children the respect and care they deserve in child care in Canada. This is not a winning or losing game. We are all here, collectively, to advocate for the little lives and the future of Canada. As child care workers, we are committed to and focused on the well-being of the children in our care.

As a parent, it has made me very happy for my own children that they won't have to suffer the way I did back then in my days. They won't have to take out a second mortgage to be able to send their children to day care.

However, as an educator, adviser and director at Tiny Hoppers in Newmarket South, I am concerned. Will the government continue to support us forever? I am all in for Bill C-35, as long as the teacher-to-child ratios do not change and we provide the same quality care that we have been giving for the last so many years.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Harim.

We'll move to Ms. Ratcliffe.

[Jennifer Ratcliffe, Director, Pebble Lane Early Learning]

Good morning.

My name is Jennifer Ratcliffe. I am the director and owner of Pebble Lane child care, a private child care facility that operates care programs in British Columbia. I have been in the care industry for 20 years and have experienced working with not-for-profits, the Surrey school board and various other child care organizations.

I come before you today as a witness to Bill C-35 an act respecting early learning and child care in Canada. Thank you to the members of this committee for giving me the opportunity to be here.

The pandemic showed us a child care crisis like never before. We saw how quickly a lack of available child care spaces can affect our country. This experience led to the creation of a national funding program and the realization that without adequate child care, people cannot work, pay bills, buy food and ultimately live. If the child care industry stops, even for one week, it becomes a national emergency.

A large majority of families live paycheque to paycheque, and a few weeks without being able to access child care leads very quickly to social and economic issues. A national funding program is exactly what our industry needs to support families and children. I believe our future lies in the strength of the generations that come after us, and it is our job to pave the way.

The delivery of the funding program is key. There are four major concerns that this program must address correctly in order to ensure long-term success. Each of these concerns is linked, and they affect one another. They are funding and inclusion, affordability, accessibility, and qualified and suitable staff. Funding programs must include all types of care, working toward one common goal.

I ask that the wording in proposed paragraph 7(1)(a) include “all licensed types of care”. All licensed child care spaces are required to follow the same regulations and uphold the same quality standards, regardless of business model. This allows quality standards to be consistent.

Currently, the CWELCC excludes disbursement funding that is used to hire support staff. Without this funding available, we have to turn away children who require additional support in our programs. This must also change, so that we can meet the needs of all children.

Recently, increases to funding have been made to reduce the cost to parents. However, the delivery of this funding has been extremely complicated. The approval process takes months, and there is little to no support or communication to answer questions. Providers are subsidizing the government and going into debt to discount their parent fees while they wait for funding. Operators feel as though they are taken for granted.

The pressure to implement this program so quickly has resulted in overpayments to providers, families double-dipping, and funding methods being overlapped. Parents are stressed and providers feel like they have no help. It is clear that the provinces are scrambling as they try to prove they can do this, but they are ultimately failing. You cannot simply throw money at a problem and expect it to change.

Wait-lists across the country are growing by the thousands each month, and families are left with no one to help them. Parents need to work and if they don't have care, their only option is social assistance. This doesn't seem right. Affordable child care is an empty promise to parents if it is not accessible.

Providers are doing everything they can to accept as many families as possible, but there are simply not enough spaces. Demand is increasing at a level that we have not seen in years. New spaces must be created in order to meet demand. Private operators need to be able to expand, but being excluded from funding for new spaces means they cannot afford to. The fee caps mean we are restricted when negotiating leases and working out operating expenses.

I have written to our government in B.C. many times, asking for help and guidance. I have never received a response.

We need our governments to support us. We need access to new spaces funding and funds to develop quality programs for the families we serve. Funding needs to be consistent, and the application process needs to be more straightforward to allow the creation of new spaces.

The vast majority of child care centres in our country are built from a lifelong commitment to caring for families and children. The women who create these facilities from the ground up have a passion and drive like no other, and they deserve recognition.

If you want a successful child care program, there needs to be drive, inspiration and passion. The work we do with children is very specific and cannot be replaced with a one-size-fits-all approach. A national child care program must be inclusive. There is simply too much demand to do it any other way if it is to be successful.

We need to work together to create quality licensed facilities and step away from the titles that separate us. Our country's core values are built on supporting others and ensuring equality. This funding program should be nothing less.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Ratcliffe.

Ms. Cicek, you have the floor.

[Sibel Cicek, Director, Government Relations, YMCA of Greater Toronto]

Good morning. Thank you for the opportunity to join you here today. I'm Sibel Cicek, and I'm here representing the YMCA of Greater Toronto.

The YMCA of Greater Toronto has more than 300 child care program locations serving children ages 0 to 12 and their families. We're also part of an Ontario network and a network across Canada. Together, YMCAs have 88,000 licensed child care spaces, making us the largest providers of non-profit licensed care across the country.

Our 55 years of experience in child care have taught us that accessible, affordable, inclusive and high-quality child care is essential to healthy child development, positive family outcomes, the participation of women in the workforce, and the strength of our economy. That's why we proudly signed on to the Canada-wide early learning and child care plan. It's also why we fully support the passage of Bill C-35.

I have three key points I want to touch on today. First is the need for consistent and predictable funding. Second is the need to support and compensate our workforce fairly. Third is the need to ensure equity and inclusion as we roll out the plan.

To begin, with funding, we are really pleased to see a commitment to sustained and ongoing child care funding at the federal level in this bill. Our recommendation is that funding be explicitly described as annualized and tied to the licensed, regulated system of child care. We also welcome mechanisms for ensuring that child care funding provided to operators reflects their true costs.

YMCAs, like other operators, are experiencing challenges with shortfalls as a result of frozen fees, the impact of inflation and inconsistent approaches across the country. This makes it difficult to forecast and plan. We know there will be bumps in the road—we're certainly feeling them—and we welcome additional foresight to ensure operators remain financially stable so that we can sustain our current operations and, in fact, also think about expanding and improving the quality of the programs we're delivering.

Second, when it comes to the workforce, I would also echo what I think you've heard here today; early childhood educators are the backbone of our child care system. We need to ensure that they are well-trained and fairly compensated for the valuable work they do. The CWELCC system will not succeed without them.

As fees for child care go down, demand is going up, and it's going up fast. In Ontario alone, the province estimates that we will be short 8,500 ECEs at the time of full implementation. Our own modelling at the YMCA indicates that we will need almost 3,500 ECEs to expand our capacity by just 20%.

Frankly, it's not just expansion that's an issue. The workforce shortage of ECEs is in fact challenging our current everyday operations. We currently have 420 vacancies for our ECE positions open in Ontario, which challenges our ability to keep our current programs stable. Without a dedicated pipeline, we can't meet current demand, let alone fulfill the expansion goals of our agreement.

We urge the federal government to work together with our provinces and territories to formalize a consistent wage grid that compensates ECEs fairly and ensures that the system can effectively recruit and retain them.

Number three is equity and inclusion. When it comes to equity in the system, we also want to ensure that safeguards are in place. If we fail to expand the new child care system in an equitable manner, the families that currently have child care spaces will be the only ones that can access the benefits. This means that families that could not afford licensed child care before CWELCC will still be prevented from accessing the program, because they will simply not be able to find an available space.

We also have much work ahead to ensure that children with special needs can be supported and included in the program. This will require more resources for staffing and support.

We urge the federal government to work together with provinces and territories to ensure that all decisions related to expansion going forward are made with an equity and inclusion lens.

Finally, if I may add one additional point, it's our need to support our six- to 12-year-olds. Anyone with kids will tell you that learning and development does not stop at age six and that families continue to need support managing the high cost of before- and after-school care for their older children as well. Although this is outside the scope of this bill, we would love to see more attention on this important age group, so that older children can have the same access to affordable high-quality care as their younger siblings.

To close, I want to reiterate that the YMCA supports Bill C-35 and continues to be a committed partner in realizing the Canada-wide early learning and child care plan. We support the establishment of a national advisory council, and we welcome ongoing formal and informal opportunities to continue to consult with all levels of government to ensure our continued success going forward.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Cicek.

We'll now begin the questioning with Ms. Ferreri, for six minutes, please.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the witnesses.

I want to give Maryam a big shout-out. I think we all connected with what you said at the beginning about trying to put your kids through child care and the importance of affordable child care. I think it's important that everyone at the table hear me say this. I can't stress enough that I know how valuable affordable child care is. I know the cost that I paid as a mom, too, and about quality, so I just want to say thanks to you for that.

Ms. Cicek, you have touched on so many interesting points. I know that the CBC article touched a lot on the fact that you have 16,000 children enrolled in your 35,000 licensed spaces, meaning that 19,000 more children don't have access currently, and it's because of the lack of people to provide the care, not the spaces. You said something that is of great concern, and I'm curious about what you think.

For children aged six and over who are not eligible for CWELCC, do you see centres and child care facilities having to increase the fees for that age demographic to offset the cost that it's going to take to sustain this program for those under age six?

[Sibel Cicek]

We certainly wouldn't be looking to increase fees for that age group, because we don't feel that families could manage an additional fee. Those fees are already, relatively speaking now in comparison with CWELCC fees, quite high, but there will be a need to look at other ways to help those families to manage their costs, because as the CWELCC reduces fees for the under-six age group, it does become a bit glaring in terms of the fees that parents with older children pay for before- and after-school care. Certainly we wouldn't want to increase that burden on families. We would really be looking to the government to work with us to help families manage those costs.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you.

Again, we see this sustainability issue playing out. How are we going to fund this and ensure that the care of the child is met?

I'll go to you, Ms. Ratcliffe.

Thanks for your testimony. A lot of what you said ties in with what Ms. Cicek said.

We want to be equitable when we're looking at this child care bill. That's the reality, especially as a Conservative. We're trying to push for universal and equitable care, so that the people who need it the most get access to it.

You said something very interesting that I've heard from many centres. I know that the people who are in the program have benefited greatly—I concur with that—but you said that you had pressure, that you felt extreme pressure to buy in. That is a very curious comment, because we've heard repeatedly from a lot of centres that they didn't feel they had any option other than to buy in. Can you expand on that?

[Jennifer Ratcliffe]

We want to be able to support our families, specifically those who have young children, and if we are not able to be part of the program, we don't feel that we're supporting them, so we naturally want to be part of the program, but we also have to weigh in all the other factors that we have to take into consideration when we want to offer quality programs.

It's really important for us to recognize what the needs are of our families, and, yes, there's definitely pressure to want to be part of that. We don't want to operate outside of everyone to be able to support our families, but we also need to be able to implement quality programs, so we're looking to be able, hopefully, to meet in the middle.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you for that.

Do you think that under the way the legislation is currently written, you will be able to expand and offer more spaces, more opportunity, for families to access child care?

[Jennifer Ratcliffe]

We are already finding that we are struggling to expand, and when opportunities arise, we have to turn them down. We are simply not able to move forward, because of the lack of funding. We've had to turn down thousands of spaces, me and other providers I know. We're just not in a position to accept them, because we can't access the new spaces funding and we are having to operate under the fee caps.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you so much.

If I can go back to Ms. Harim—Maryam, if I may?

You touched on quality, and said that you support this bill. You think it's great, but you want reassurance that quality will not be compromised.

I want to tie in all three witnesses and what they've said, and in particular what Ms. Cicek said about children with exceptional needs, differences or disabilities. In the way the bill is currently written, what would you suggest to ensure that quality is still met, and that it provides equal access for all children?

[Maryam Harim]

That's a very touchy subject right now for me, because for the last two weeks we've been fighting over giving care to a child we've accommodated for the last two years. That child is autistic, has high needs and has been refused by many day cares. My educators are the ones giving good care in that room. That child has been denied care in school by the school board. How does that make me feel as a mom? That mom comes to me crying every day. All the other children are starting to go with that first step.

They're starting in September or March. It's almost the end of April, and this mom is still trying to fight, saying, “My child also needs a normal life. Yes, she has high needs, but if day care can accommodate, why can't you? You can give the same funding, the same one-on-one.”

It makes my heart bleed. The EI comes in and she's crying. She's literally on the floor, saying, “Somebody help this child. Put her through school,” but no, the school board isn't doing it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Harim and Ms. Ferreri.

We went over a bit, but it was a compelling question. Thank you for your answer.

Next, we have Mr. Van Bynen for six minutes, please.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's great to see the scope of the witnesses today.

First of all, to the local Newmarket operation, thank you for taking the time to come. At the same time, we have the benefit of an operator, or an organization, like the YMCA, with 88,000 spaces, I think I heard. It's great for us to get both perspectives as we go forward.

I'll start with you, Ms. Harim. I had the pleasure of viewing your set-up down on Stonehaven, I think.

What's the impact of your business on the local community? What's the effect of this program for the local community as you see it?

[Maryam Harim]

It has made a huge impact on the families. Like I stated before, as a parent I'm extremely happy. I'm very happy as an educator, as well, because these families are able to afford care that was not previously affordable.

I suffered as a mom and as a parent. As these parents, the new young generation that's coming up.... For that matter, my children will definitely benefit. They are 28 and 29 now, and will be putting their children in child care so they can go back to work.

I'm happy to see these children and new families come to child care and get quality care. These children are like sponges at this age. They absorb everything, and they need quality care.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

They certainly have lots of energy and require a lot of attention.

The challenge I'm seeing more often, in many services, is that we have federal funding programs, but local and provincial deliveries.

As a small independent operator, what are the gaps that you think should be considered in this bill?

[Maryam Harim]

First and foremost, the quality of care shouldn't go down. The ratios should not be changed, if those are even in the mix. I have no idea about that. If they are, they will definitely have a big impact on the quality we have been giving all of these years, and what we will be providing to the children and families.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

I, for one, agree that the quality of care needs to be critical.

I will turn now to Ms. Cicek.

From your perspective in managing so many outlets, how do you determine, or satisfy yourself, that the quality of care is consistent and to the standards that you as an organization have set?

[Sibel Cicek]

That's a great question.

The YMCA has been at this for a number of decades now, and we have an established national curriculum that was developed at the YMCA of Greater Toronto, which is implemented across the country.

In each province where we're operating, we also ensure that we are not only meeting, but, as often as we can, exceeding the regulations and guidelines that are set out. We take great pride in our ability to train ECEs when they join our organization, are matched with mentors, and hopefully have opportunities for growth and development while they're with us.

However, that doesn't prevent attrition. We are still losing ECEs on a very regular basis to other sectors, including school boards and municipalities, where wages are much higher.

We're doing everything we can to compensate ECEs fairly with the resources we have, but we're finding that there is not a level playing field in terms of system delivery. Certainly ECEs are leaving en masse to work with school boards and municipalities, and even to take up careers in other sectors where they can earn more.

We would really like to see that compensation of ECEs be addressed. It is such an important component of the quality of the program experience that we're able to deliver. The quality of the staff and the relationship that ECEs have with children really contribute to the valuable experience they have in child care. Without those high-quality ECEs, we won't be able to meet the mark when it comes to quality. That's a big priority for us.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

We've heard that compensation is a significant component of retention.

Newfoundland and Labrador recently announced a $25 minimum wage for ECEs. If Ontario did the same, what would that mean for your operations, and what would it mean for the sector, broadly, as well?