Human Resources Committee on April 25th, 2023

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

You can see that this impacts a lot of people. I want to read a couple of things that I think are really important to have on the record:

To meet the current and expanding demand, Canadian families need all forms of child care to be affordable and accessible. Limiting parental choice to one type of care conflicts with the notion of a universal plan and hinders access. To improve access, the plan must acknowledge home child care, both licensed and unlicensed, as a valuable component of the child care system. Not only does home child care impact expansion, as it is faster and less costly to open, but [home child care] also meets the unique needs of Canadian families by allowing them to choose a caregiver with similar values, a shared language or a shared culture. In partnership with their caregiver, a strong bond is established, resulting in a mutually cohesive relationship focused on the needs of the child.

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

I have a point of order, Chair.

I just think that when we're talking about unlicensed or care that is not within the scope of the agreements of which this legislation speaks, it's out of scope for the discussion as we move through amendments to the legislation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Ms. Ferreri, if you could, please keep your comments to the amendment you moved.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Just to follow up on the rest of that quote, it states, “We know that family engagement is essential to each child's development.” That is from Julie Bisnath. She's the program coordinator of the Child Care Providers Resource Network.

There's one more here that I think is really important to read into the record. It says that “ELCC programs”, which stands for “early learning and child care”:

...to be inclusive of and responsive to the rights and needs of children with disabilities and their parents/caregivers. Implementing such a mandate can address exclusive and harmful practices and advance a fundamental shift in how children with disabilities are viewed in our society and how [early learning and child care] providers are trained and supported. We also recommend that active measures be taken to alleviate the burden on parents to advocate for their individual child's inclusion and navigate a complex bureaucratic system....

That was from Dr. Alison Gerlach and Dr. Janet Newbury, school of child and youth care, University of Victoria.

Again, I just want some of these on record for people at home to know that there has been this attempt by the Liberals to paint the Conservatives as anti-child care people. Nothing could be further from the truth. What we're trying to do is ensure that everyone is included.

I know that I've had very passionate discussions, and I hope you know where we come from. It is my job as the critic to stand up for all of the people who are left out, and there are. You know. You've met with them. How can we say that this is a universal child care bill if we don't include them? What are we saying to Canadian families who are left out in the cold, to women who can't go to work and small entrepreneur women who are going to have to shut their doors? This is actually hurting so many women, because they can't choose that.

All we're asking for today is for you to consider this amendment seriously, because I think there's an opportunity to strengthen this bill in a way that says that we here at the House of Commons, we as elected officials, care for everyone, and yes, we will be flexible and say, yes, we will trust parents to choose what's best for their children.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Next is Ms. Falk.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thank you very much, Chair.

I too want to speak to this amendment and in support of this. Looking at the amendment, it says “regardless of the provider”. I have met with many new Canadians who have come to Canada and who rely heavily on their ethnic community, whether that's grandparents, friends or family from where they're from.

Also, in a rural aspect as well, I think it's important to note that not every community, especially in rural Canada, has access to day care or to a day care facility. I know that a lot of families in my communities are using home-based child care, with nannies, shared nannies and au pairs. I have communities in my riding that have au pairs from Europe.

The end half of this says, “that meet or exceed standards set by provincial governments or Indigenous governing bodies”. As Ms. Ferreri has said as well, we heard a very compelling argument earlier from MP Gazan when it comes to indigenous women and children. She said herself that any parent wants, in her terms, free, prior and informed consent, but being able to have that opinion and be included....

I just really hope that the members of the other parties really seriously consider this and the fact that there's a lack of spaces in the country as it is. There are rural parts of this country that don't have access to an urban centre that may offer a program that is approved by the federal government under this layout.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Falk.

Seeing no further discussion, I will ask the clerk to call a recorded vote on the amendment of Madam Ferreri. Just to be clear, we're voting on CPC-1.

(Amendment negatived: nays 6; yeas 5)

The amendment of Madam Ferreri has been defeated. That allows NDP-2 to be moved.

Madam Gazan, are you moving it?

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Yes.

I move that Bill C-35, in clause 7, be amended as follows. Part (a) of the amendment would replace line 4 on page 5 with the following:

(a) increase the provision of, and facilitate equitable access to, high-quality early learning and child care

Part (b) of the amendment would replace line 8 on page 5 with the following:

ernments or Indigenous governing bodies, that are reflective of other evidence-based best practices in high-quality service provision and that re‐

Part (c) of the amendment would replace line 10 on page 5 with the following:

(b) enable families of all income levels, including low-incomes, to benefit from

Part (d) would replace lines 13 and 14 on page 5 with the following:

(c) support the provision, including in rural and remote communities, of early learning and child care programs and services that are inclusive of children from systematically marginalized groups, including children with disabilities, and of children from English and French linguistic minority communities, that

Part (e) would replace, in the English version, line 16 on page 5 with the following:

ilies and that respond to their varying needs; and

Finally, part (f) would replace lines 21 and 22 on page 5 with the following:

qualified early childhood education workforce that is well-supported by good working conditions, livable wages and benefits, opportunities to obtain experience and ongoing training, and other measures necessary for the recruitment and retention of staff.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Gazan.

Before I open the floor for debate, if NDP-2, the amendment moved by Madam Gazan, is adopted, then CPC-2 cannot be moved due to a line conflict. Both amendments seek to modify lines 10 on page 5.

Is there any discussion on Madam Gazan's amendment?

Madam Saks.

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

I'd like to thank my colleague from the NDP for putting forward the amendment to enhance the work that we're doing here today. It's important. She's made some very important interventions thus far.

With regard to part (a), I'm wondering if this is a friendly subamendment to simply change the word “increase” with the word “support”.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

We have a subamendment moved by Ms. Saks. It's a word change.

Is it clear to committee members with regard to the word change in the subamendment proposed by Ms. Saks?

We'll suspend for a few minutes while we get clarification for the members.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Committee members, we'll resume.

The clerk has advised me that committee members should have the word change. The word change was moved by Madam Saks as a subamendment to the amendment of Madam Gazan, which was being debated.

Does everybody have the word change?

Do you want to reference the word again, Ms. Saks?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

It's changing the word “increase” in proposed paragraph (a) to “support”.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

The subamendment of Ms. Saks is to change the word in the amendment.

Give it again, Ms. Saks.

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

It's to change the word “increase” to “support”.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Seeing no further debate, I'm going to call a vote on the subamendment of Ms. Saks, which you all have.

(Subamendment agreed to: yeas 7; nays 4)

We will now revert to the amendment of Ms. Gazan as amended.

Ms. Saks.

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair, for recognizing me.

I would like to put forward another subamendment to part (f) to replace lines 21 and 22 on page 5 with the following: “development of young children, including through the recruitment and retention of a qualified and well-supported early childhood education workforce, recognizing that working conditions affect the provision of those programs and services.”

I believe that has been submitted to the clerk and can be circulated to the members. If there's a need to suspend to review, that's quite all right.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Chair, would it be possible for the clerk to add my name to her "to" list? I am not receiving the subamendments.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Godin.

To the committee, we have the second subamendment by Ms. Saks to the amendment of Madam Gazan.

Is there any discussion?

Ms. Falk.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Can you repeat what you want it changed to?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Sure.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

I feel like I have half a word, and I don't—

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

It's “development”. If you look at the paragraph as written in the actual bill, it jumps to the next line. It's on lines 20 to 22.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thank you. That makes more sense.

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Mr. Godin, is it necessary in the French version?