Human Resources Committee on April 25th, 2023

[The Chair (Mr. Robert Morrissey (Egmont, Lib.)), Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

I call the meeting to order.

I want to welcome and recognize Mr. Godin, who will be replacing Mr. Aitchison for today's meeting.

Welcome to meeting number 64 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format. All the committee members are appearing in person in the room today. Nobody is appearing virtually.

To ensure an orderly meeting, before speaking, wait until I recognize you by name. You can choose to speak in the official language of your choice by using one of the headsets in the room. If there is an issue with translation, please let me know and I'll suspend while it's being corrected. As well, I want to remind members and those witnesses who may be speaking to speak slowly in order to give the interpreters the opportunity to translate.

As well, screenshots of today's meeting are not allowed. If any technical issues come up during the meeting, please get my attention and we'll suspend while they're being corrected.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Friday, February 3, 2023, the committee will continue its study of Bill C‑35, an act respecting early learning and child care in Canada.

Today we are proceeding with clause-by-clause consideration. I would like to provide members of the committee with some instructions and a few comments on how the committee will proceed with the clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C‑35.

As the name indicates, this is an examination of all the clauses in the order in which they appear in the bill. I will call each clause successively, and each clause is subject to debate and a vote. If there are amendments to the clause in question, I will recognize the member proposing the amendment, who may explain it. The amendment will then be open for debate. When no further members wish to intervene, the amendment will be voted on. Amendments will be considered in the order in which they appear in the bill or in the package each member has received from the clerk. Members should note that the amendments must be submitted in writing to the clerk of the committee.

As the chair, I will go slowly to allow all members to follow the proceedings properly. If at any time you are unsure, please, you can always call for a suspension while you get a chance to establish where we're at.

Amendments have been given an alphanumeric number in the top right corner to indicate which party submitted them. There is no need for a seconder to move an amendment. Once it is moved, you will need unanimous consent to withdraw it.

During debate on an amendment, members are permitted to move subamendments. These subamendments must be submitted in writing. They do not require the approval of the mover of the amendment. Only one subamendment may be considered at a time, and that subamendment cannot be amended. When a subamendment is moved to an amendment, it is voted on first. Then another subamendment may be moved, or the committee may consider the main amendment and vote on it.

Once every clause has been voted on, the committee will vote on the title and the bill itself. An order to reprint the bill may be required if amendments are adopted so that the House has a proper copy for use at report stage. Finally, the committee will have to order the chair to report the bill to the House. That report contains only the text of any adopted amendments as well as an indication of any deleted clauses.

I would like to welcome representatives from the Department of Employment and Social Development, who are available to answer technical questions related to the bill: Michelle Lattimore, director general, federal secretariat on early learning and child care; Cheri Reddin, director general, indigenous early learning and child care; Jill Henry, director, policy, indigenous early learning; Kelly Nares, director, federal secretariat on early learning; and Christian Paradis, director, federal secretariat on early learning and child care.

Again, welcome to the committee.

We will now proceed with clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C‑35, which you have before you.

My understanding is that there are no amendments to clauses 2 through 4.

(Clauses 2 to 4 inclusive agreed to)

(On clause 5)

I understand that there is an amendment on clause 5.

Mr. Godin.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I am here to show the importance that we in the Conservative Party of Canada place on the two official languages. I think it is important that this be reflected in all our legislation.

We have studied Bill C-13, which we will probably be debating tomorrow in the House of Commons. I am not revealing anything that is not already public. I think the importance of the two official languages needs to be specified in all future legislation, and for that reason I am proposing amendment CPC-0.1. I am going to read it.

First, I propose that Bill C-35 be amended by replacing lines 23 and 24 on page 3 with the following:child care system, including in both official languages, and its commitment to ongoing collaboration with the provinces, Indigenous peoples and official language minority communities

Second, I propose that it be amended by replacing, in the French version, line 24 on page 3 with the following:nue avec les provinces, les peuples autochtones et les communautés de langue officielle en situation minoritaire afin

Third, I propose that it be amended by replacing lines 28 and 29 on page 3 with the following: taining long-term funding for the provinces, Indigenous peoples and official language minority communities for the establishment and mainte-

In fact, what is important is that when we studied Bill C-13 on official languages, a number of organizations testified about the importance of making sure that our young people in official language minority communities have access to education in French so that our Canada will be bilingual in the future. I stress the fact that this bilingualism relates to French and English, because we have a Governor General who is bilingual but does not speak French. I think it is important to specify this in the bill and to make sure it is reflected in all of the laws of our country, Canada, which takes pride in being a bilingual country.

That is the purpose of the amendment I am proposing. If there are questions, I am available to answer them.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

So...

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Excuse me, Madam.

You all heard the amendment moved by Mr. Godin. Is there any discussion?

Madam Bérubé.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It is important to amend amendment CPC-0.1 to replace "official language minority communities" with "francophone minority communities." The text of the amendment would then be:taining long-term funding for the provinces, Indigenous peoples and francophone minority communities for the establishment and mainte-

I will explain. In Canada, the only minority official language is French.

In Quebec, anglophones have very easy access to the network of child care centres. We see the number of bilingual or anglophone centres constantly growing. The opposite is true for francophones outside Quebec, who have trouble getting services in their language. This subamendment would reinforce the importance of offering early childhood education services for francophone communities outside Quebec, the real minority language community in Canada.

As well, we know that Quebec sets an example to follow for child care services that allow for work/life balance and enable women to return to work. This learning program is very important for education and socialization.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thanks, Madam Bérubé.

Just so we're clear, you're moving a subamendment to the amendment.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

It is a subamendment, yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Could you provide that in written form to the clerk so we have it?

Thank you, Madam Bérubé.

Is there discussion on the subamendment from Madam Bérubé?

Mr. Godin, go ahead on the subamendment.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My Bloc Québécois colleague is correct when it comes to Quebec. However, since Canada is a country, we have to take a comprehensive view of the country and protect both official languages. I understand that it may be problematic when we consider only Quebec, but we have to consider the country as a whole. Canada is bilingual and its two official languages are English and French, so I think we have to protect both official languages where they are in the minority. We must not diminish either language. We must work to protect both official languages. That is our philosophy in the Conservative Party.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

The legislative clerk has a quick question, Madam Bérubé.

Go ahead, Madam Clerk.

[Marie-Hélène Sauvé, Legislative Clerk]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would just like to get a clarification, Ms. Bérubé. Your amendment applies only to point (c), the one that refers to lines 28 and 29 on page 3, is that right?

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

It also applies to point (a).

[Marie-Hélène Sauvé]

What I have here applies only to point (c). So I understand that you want it to apply to points (a), (b) and (c). Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Ms. Bérubé, you have the floor.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

I move this subamendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Go ahead.

[Marie-Hélène Sauvé]

Do you have the written version, particularly for point (a)? Point (b) is okay, because we can see where the words "francophone minority communities" are to be inserted. However, I would like to clarify the wording for point (a), if possible, where it refers to "child care system, including in both official languages." I would like to know where to insert the term "francophone."

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

I will remove point (a).

[Marie-Hélène Sauvé]

You want to remove point (a) entirely or just the reference to francophones?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Excuse me, Madam Bérubé. I'll suspend for a moment while we get this clear.

Madam Bérubé, could you clarify with the clerk exactly...?

Are you clear, legislative clerk, on the subamendment?

[Marie-Hélène Sauvé]

I understand that point (a) of the amendment will remain unchanged. Point (b) would now say "communautés francophones en situation minoritaire," as well as point (c).

That's good, thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Fine.

Thank you, Madam Bérubé.

Go ahead, Mr. Godin.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Chair, I understand that we are just beginning the clause-by-clause consideration of this bill. The members of the Standing Committee on Official Languages have just completed clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-13 and I know that a member may not amend their own subamendment.

Since this is the first time, I think this committee can be indulgent. However, I would like to have the definitive version of the Bloc's subamendment. As well, as procedure provides, I think a member should not be able to amend their own subamendment from now on.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Madam Clerk, I believe you want to say something.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Émilie Thivierge]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

What Ms. Bérubé wanted to do was not clear, and she simply amended her subamendment to clarify the situation.