Evidence of meeting #22 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was units.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Chief Executive Officer, Build Canada Homes
—and we find it quite different across the country.
Conservative
Scott Aitchison Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON
It is. I'm sure that's why it hasn't been dealt with yet.
I'm wondering about Toronto, as an example—you have lots of experience there, having been a councillor. The city got its housing accelerator fund—$470 million, the biggest one in the country—agreed to for a number of things, not the least of which was sixplexes right across the city. They've come back and made them legal in nine of the 25 wards, and the penalty was to lose $10 million of that funding, or about 2%.
Starts have basically gone off a cliff in larger cities like the GTA and in the Lower Mainland. Is there anything specific that your agency will be doing in partnership with the private sector in those outrageously expensive markets to get them building again? I'm worried. They're starting to lay people off.
Chief Executive Officer, Build Canada Homes
We're working with many non-profit organizations and the private sector in those markets, in the GTA or in B.C. We're working not only at the government level but also directly with the private and non-profit sectors to unlock some of those projects. We can bring some flexibility, which is important for unlocking some of those projects. I would like to go faster, but honestly, I need this budget to pass. Without the money, I cannot unlock those projects—
Conservative
Scott Aitchison Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON
Specifically, can you give me an example of what you're doing with a private sector developer? I mean it's math, simple math, right? What are you doing? Give me an example of a private sector developer you're working with. What are you doing to make the math work?
Chief Executive Officer, Build Canada Homes
For example, we've had projects in which the rents are coming down. The bond rate, which is what is used—it has been very volatile—has increased. The math doesn't work anymore. By creating, in a couple of cases, a bridge loan, we're able to get shovels in the ground on those projects, and that unlocks the projects.
Conservative
Chief Executive Officer, Build Canada Homes
These—the ones we're working on—were for rental projects as well.
Conservative
Chief Executive Officer, Build Canada Homes
We're working on a couple of things on home ownership that I hope you'll be able to see. I can't divulge. It's still commercial confidential information.
Conservative
Scott Aitchison Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON
The minister was here, and I must admit that we talked to him about all the work going on. He raves about your organization and how you're getting rentals built and all that kind of stuff. I don't doubt that it's important. The non-market supply is low as well, and it's good that you're doing this, but it feels very much as though it's happening at the expense of market housing and ownership. Home ownership is something that I think Canadians still aspire to.
If in fact the root cause of the challenges there does lie with the cost and the timelines of government in the process.... We know that in Ontario, about 30% of the cost of the average home is the government. If we can't get the costs down, how do we get people back into home ownership?
Chief Executive Officer, Build Canada Homes
I can tell you now, as somebody who came from the private sector in the last few years, that it's a mixture of things in the cost of housing. It is the price of landing, and that sometimes includes zoning restrictions. It is the interest rates going up. It is the fact that the investor is not there to buy the condo. It's very hard to get end-users to buy a condo in those markets and wait for five or seven years. It's the way we finance the condominiums. There are many things. There are definitely government fees. There's the timing of approvals.
It's a series of things. I can say that there's not one order of government or one sector that can solve this alone: It is partnerships and bringing every tool to the table. That is why I'm so proud, to be honest with you, to be working with Build Canada Homes: For many years, there was a disconnect in having so much federal land available and the financial tools and the power to bring partners to the table. We didn't make use of that.
I think this is a tool. It's part of the solution. It won't solve housing, but it's a big part of the solution, and it can be a catalyst for modern methods of construction as well.
Conservative
Scott Aitchison Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON
I appreciate your private sector experience. I hope you really bring that to bear with this agency and we see some results. As I'm sure you're aware, the crisis is now; it's not five years from now.
Thanks for that.
Liberal
Jessica Fancy-Landry Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
Through you, Chair, let's talk budget.
As you just mentioned, we need to get this passed in order to unlock all the good things that we have set in place. Let's get the ball rolling.
My question in regard to the BIA is this: How would the impact of the proposed $11.5-billion investment in Build Canada Homes, as put forward by clause 200, be tracked and evaluated? How would transparency and accountability for these investments and their outcomes be provided to Canadians?
This is a transparency question. You're dealing with one of the biggest purses in all of our government, so how does that transparency come into play with the $11.5 billion?
Chief Executive Officer, Build Canada Homes
We're going to be reporting very clearly on our website, as the projects get financed and approved, on the number of units financed, the affordability level and how the money is being deployed. It will be public and transparent.
I note that the 7,400 units we are working on need those funds available immediately. These are all shovels in the ground this year that, with a delay, cannot proceed.
We did an RFQ. We are doing an RFI now, starting with the sites. We cannot start deploying the money to get the shovels in the ground until the budget gets passed. The sooner we have the money, the sooner we'll get shovels in the ground. We'll get these ones and the ones we have in the pipeline available for Canadians to live in and for families to prosper.
Liberal
Jessica Fancy-Landry Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
I look forward to all members around this table today helping to unlock the money so that you can get the work done that needs to get done.
How would the investment policy framework developed by Build Canada Homes inform the allocation of the proposed $11.5 billion?
Chief Executive Officer, Build Canada Homes
There are clear priorities that we've indicated in the investment policy. These are priorities to have shovels in the ground, to be a partner, to have affordability and to have $1 billion for transitional housing. It sends a signal to the market on what our priorities will be and how the money will be deployed.
Liberal
Jessica Fancy-Landry Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
Finally, what is the rationale for transitioning Build Canada Homes to potentially be a stand-alone federal agency? What impact do you think this will have on government operations and reporting?
Chief Executive Officer, Build Canada Homes
We want to be a catalyst for modern methods of construction, but we also want to be a catalyst to attract others, especially funders, to be partners.
There are certain things that we are not able to do right now as a part of the ministry and as an operating agency. We don't have certain tools. We cannot use our equity, for example, which is a valuable tool as well.
Also, we want to attract capital. We are talking with banks. We're talking with pension funds. It is important to have these kinds of partnerships to be a stand-alone organization.
Liberal
Jessica Fancy-Landry Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
Thank you very much.
Those are all the questions I had today, Chair.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
Thank you, Ms. Fancy.
Ms. Larouche, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.
Bloc
Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I would like to ask you a question about one of the concerns that some people may have.
Organizations like FRAPRU, the Fonds d'action populaire en réaménagement urbain, for example, talk about Build Canada Homes' definition of affordability, which in no way guarantees that housing will truly meet the ability to pay of those who need it. For example, Build Canada Homes would refer to affordability as 80% of median market rent. The use of 30% of household income in a given sector, including both renters and owners, is generalized, when it's a matter of funding housing referred to as “rental” housing. In short, the definition of affordability at Homes Canada can cause some problems.
What can you ensure to do to fund housing that will match the ability to pay for low and modest-income renters, and to really address the unaffordable housing crisis and the homelessness crisis?