Human Resources Committee on April 23rd, 2026

[Mitch Gascoyne]

Yes, as long as they're buildable and affordable. The numbers need to work so that they can be affordable, constructable and economical to bring out of the ground. Absolutely, my view and, I think, the view of others in my industry is that supply should lead to lower-cost housing, and that's okay. That's what we want to do. We want to bring the supply online and make it more affordable for all.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Okay. Thanks.

Quickly, for Mr. Pelletier, you spoke, sir, about predictability and versatility, a portfolio financing type of approach. Are you suggesting that this is something Build Canada Homes needs to do or will do? Is it your impression that it will do this or that you need it?

[Maxime Pelletier]

The investment document that was put out by Build Canada Homes says that it wants to do that, but in our experience, moving from a project-to-project logic to a portfolio logic has been difficult from the bureaucratic perspective, because you have to switch how you approach accountability.

It's both something that Build Canada Homes said it wants to do and something that we want to see, but our message is that if we want it to work, it's important that government accepts that accountability will not work on a project-by-project basis anymore. It would work by having targets on all the projects that will be built within one investment agreement.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Aitchison.

Ms. Desrochers, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Caroline Desrochers, Liberal, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank the witnesses for joining us this morning. I would also like to thank them for working with us over the past year as we developed this new agency, Build Canada Homes. It's actually already up and running.

Mr. Watts, you spoke a bit about Build Canada Homes' different approach. That's exactly what we want to do, with looser criteria. That's why it isn't a program, but an affordable housing investment agency where we work closely with the private sector.

My first question is for the UTILE representatives and Mr. Gascoyne. I'll then turn to Mr. Watts.

Mr. Levesque and Mr. Pelletier, I know that you have already dealt with Build Canada Homes. Mr. Gascoyne, I don't know whether you have already done so.

I would like to know whether this approach, in particular the investment policy that we implemented with its fairly loose criteria, has been demonstrated to date. Obviously, some accountability is still required. However, do you think that things are moving in the right direction?

[Laurent Levesque]

Thank you for the question.

I would say that we feel that things are moving in the right direction. In terms of the philosophy, the methods of operation and the current status of the implementation process, the new agency is already much more flexible than the CMHC. We must remember that the CMHC also has a macroprudential mandate for the general housing market.

I think that the CMHC has found it challenging to focus on its affordable housing mandate. It also has the mortgage loan insurance program, which makes it responsible for most of the housing starts, as Mr. Gascoyne reminded us.

However, remember—

[Caroline Desrochers, Liberal, Trois-Rivières, QC]

It's useful, no pun intended, to have both sides. We need an agency with more flexibility when it comes to affordable housing, as long as we have coordination, as Mr. Watts said.

[Laurent Levesque]

That's right. This part still needs fine‑tuning.

As my colleague pointed out, the CMHC's remaining major mortgage or mortgage loan insurance programs don't always align properly with the reality of NPOs or with the various other levers for action available to Build Canada Homes or the provinces.

We've reached this point in our initial discussions with Build Canada Homes. We're trying to figure out how to ensure that everything remains consistent.

[Caroline Desrochers, Liberal, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Gascoyne, would you like to add anything?

[Mitch Gascoyne]

Yes, absolutely. We have had conversations with BCH, and I think that's exactly it. CMHC is great. It has programs. It can roll out the programs. BCH is flexible. You talk to them about what you need to make the project work. They're open to providing patient capital and coinvestment. They really want to be the last piece that makes the project work.

In our case, we're dealing with a senior lender that is a big bank. It could mean that you already have CMHC financing lined up, but it's additive insomuch as they're not constrained. They want to drive toward the housing being built and are interested and open to talking about how that can happen.

[Caroline Desrochers, Liberal, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Gascoyne.

Mr. Watts, I would like to briefly discuss the issues surrounding homelessness.

You spoke about transitional housing programs. Over the next 10 years, $1 billion will be allocated to transitional and supportive housing.

We know that the homelessness crisis is often tied to housing affordability issues for 30% to 40% of homeless people across Canada. Moreover, we need to work closely with the provinces and municipalities. I gather that you agree that the federal government must play a role in providing support and leverage to get things moving in the right direction. Do you think that the federal government must play a role in addressing the issues surrounding homelessness?

[Samuel Watts]

Absolutely. In my opinion, the federal government must show leadership and help the provinces facing these issues across the country.

My role at the National Housing Council gives me the chance or the opportunity to look at things across the country. I must say that the realities are different in British Columbia, Alberta and Montreal.

This is really important. We need a continuum of services to address homelessness. First, we need upstream prevention. If we can turn off the tap, that will help. However, people will still often end up in difficult situations. At that point, we need to meet with them quickly and help them find programs or housing, which is often transitional.

My colleagues who are with us and my friends at UTILE—hello, Mr. Levesque—have a housing stock. As an organization, we always focus our efforts on programs that help people find permanent housing. That said, the continuum of services remains vital and the federal government must play a role.

[Caroline Desrochers, Liberal, Trois-Rivières, QC]

My time is almost up.

I'll still ask you my question, Mr. Gascoyne, even if you don't have time to answer it. That said, feel free to send the committee your written response later.

You spoke about construction costs. The municipalities need support to update or modernize their infrastructure. This aspect is often factored into construction costs. Yet if the municipalities cut all taxes, how will they come up with the money to meet these infrastructure needs?

That's why we set up programs to help the municipalities. However, we need to find a way to tackle these challenges.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Desrochers.

Mr. Gascoyne, you'll have to provide that in writing to the committee. You can reflect on the question and then provide it in writing.

Ms. Larouche, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank the witnesses for joining us today.

Mr. Gascoyne, thank you for your work.

Mr. Levesque and Mr. Pelletier, I've been keeping up with UTILE's work, particularly on student housing in Rimouski, with my colleague, the local member of Parliament. It's great.

Mr. Watts, I'm impressed with your work at Welcome Hall Mission. You said that credibility isn't measured by the number of units but by the number of lives changed. I hope to have the opportunity to revisit a key issue for us. It's the much‑discussed issue of how to define affordability. That's why we're talking more about social and community housing in Quebec.

I would like to commend the witnesses for joining us as we work on this bill, which will move forward and will play a key role.

Before we go any further, I have a technical issue to resolve. I moved a motion, which I believe you received by email. I'll read it to you:

That the Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills Development, Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities invite Cliff Groen, senior associate deputy minister of the Department of Employment and Social Development and chief operating officer for Service Canada, and John Ostrander, former technical head, benefits delivery modernization, for a period of two hours to answer parliamentarians' questions on the management of benefits delivery modernization and its impact.

I'll now let Ms. Koutrakis move her amendment so that we can resolve this issue.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Larouche.

We would like to add the officials from the department to be at this meeting, and we would also like to remove the person who is now in the Privy Council who is mentioned in the motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

The motion is—

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Mr. Chair, Ms. Koutrakis proposed to remove the words “, and John Ostrander, former technical head, benefits delivery modernization” and to replace “two hours” with “one hour”. So the guests would be Cliff Groen and the deputy ministers. These are the only proposed changes.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Yes.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

I agree with this amendment.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

We're removing the gentleman who is currently with the Privy Council Office.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

You want to remove John Ostrander. We'll remove him and replace “two hours” with “one hour”. That's all.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Yes.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Can we reach an agreement with our Conservative colleagues to adopt this motion?

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster—Meadow Lake, SK]

If the clerk could read me the amendment....