Human Resources Committee on April 23rd, 2026

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Yes. That's no problem. It's clear that we don't have to spend any time in committee business next week. It's clear.

Yes, Madame Larouche, do you want to speak to clause-by-clause? From my notes, you had your hand up from that period.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

I've made my point, Mr. Chair. However, I repeat that, as stated in the blues, you said that you were committed to consulting the vice-chairs, which you did not do. I said what I had to say, and it's on the record.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you.

Is there anybody else? We're on clause 2 of Bill C-20.

We have Mr. Genuis and Madame Desrochers.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I'll briefly say, Chair, that I've been on a lot of different kinds of committees in different situations, and I know that committees do their best work when we can operate on a consensus basis, so I'm very happy that we got there. If this establishes a precedent going forward, I'm more hopeful than I was about what we'll do. I'm cautiously optimistic.

I'll leave my comments there and look forward to seeing what happens.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Genuis.

Go ahead, Madame Desrochers.

[Caroline Desrochers, Liberal, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much to my colleagues for their co-operation this morning.

Mr. Chair, I want to begin by thanking colleagues from all parties for the collaborative approach that we've had on this important legislation, Bill C-20, Build Canada Homes. We may disagree on the how, but we've had important, substantive discussions over the last few weeks, and I know that we all share the goal of addressing the housing crisis.

I want to thank the officials from Housing, Infrastructure and Communities Canada for being here and assisting us with this clause-by-clause reading and for all the work over the last few months as you have moved this forward.

We've been clear about the work we're doing. There is no single solution to the housing crisis. We've heard from witnesses over the last three meetings that we need to think outside the box and take bold action, and this is what we're doing. We're talking about a broad, multipronged approach to reaching the goal of building good neighbourhoods with homes that people can afford. We're empowering the private sector to build by addressing red tape, taxes and costs. We're supporting provinces and communities in building housing-enabling infrastructure.

We're also tackling homelessness and supporting the most vulnerable. We're working to increase the stock of affordable housing. I know this is important to all of us in each of our neighbourhoods and each of our communities.

Just this week, in the spring economic update, and in line with things that we discussed a lot at the committee, we proposed important new measures to ensure that Canada has the skilled workers to build all the homes that we need to build. We're making a major, $6-billion investment in skilled trades, and we're helping to create the workforce that our ambitious housing and infrastructure plan is going to require. We're bringing more tools into our tool box.

This new Crown corporation, Build Canada Homes, is going to help deliver on the government's plans to build more homes faster for Canadians who need them the most, and that's going to help all market and non-market housing as well. The new Crown corporation is going to help restore affordability, drastically increase housing supply of all types to get people off the street and build houses for the missing middle-income earners.

The legislation grants Build Canada Homes the ability to provide partners with a flexible mix of financial tools, including grants, low-interest loans, loan guarantees and equity investments. It will also give Build Canada Homes the ability to acquire and develop property and build housing on public lands. The new approach will allow us to accelerate construction timelines, improve productivity and support a more innovative home-building sector.

As a Crown corporation, it will have oversight, powers, functions and the tools it needs to deliver on its mandate as an affordable housing builder. It is designed to act as a developer/financier/convenor to accelerate the construction of affordable housing. It will have operational independence and needs to get shovels in the ground and to crowd in private capital while remaining accountable to Parliament.

Build Canada Homes is already working with municipalities and provinces. A number of important agreements have been announced in recent weeks and months. These include projects like the 750 housing units being built in Nunavut to address the urgent housing needs in northern Canada, new housing in Saint‑Calixte and Joliette, as well as units built in partnership with La Maison d'Ariane to support women and children who are victims of violence. Most recently, eight affordable housing projects were announced that will result in the construction of more than 1,100 new rental units here in Ottawa.

Dialogue between municipalities and provinces continues to evolve. We know that we will all have to work together, hand in hand, to address the crisis. Partners are getting to work to find solutions to issues related to zoning, permitting delays and everything that slows down the construction of more housing.

The ministersuggested that many women's shelters are eligible for funding from Build Canada Homes. In fact, $1 billion has been set aside for supportive and transitional housing. This is an important clarification, because while the term “shelter” is often used broadly, the reality is that most women's shelters operate as supportive and transitional housing. It's now clear that if a women's shelter provides this type of service, it meets the eligibility criteria for that funding. We also heard that the government is working closely with the women's shelter sector to clarify these criteria.

So Build Canada Homes will really be there to build more housing across the continuum, whether it's transitional housing, social housing co‑operatives, deeply affordable housing or affordable housing.

If we want to tackle the housing crisis, it's important to pass this bill and move this legislation forward.

I want to thank everyone around the table for working hard so that we can move forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Desrochers.

I have Mr. Aitchison on my speaking list.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the dedicated staff for being here.

I have a few questions about the bill.

I would start with clause 2 and the definitions.

I don't know if you've been following the testimony of witnesses, but Dr. Carolyn Whitzman was here. She pointed out that one of the challenges we have in this country is that there are a lot of definitions of affordable housing. I would note that there isn't one in Bill C-20, yet the purpose of the corporation is, in fact, to get more affordable housing built.

Can you comment on that? How will it operate in the absence of its own definition, or what definition will it use? How will it measure that?

It's a bit of an open question, but I'm curious to hear your thoughts on that.

[Lindsay Boldt]

As you note, within the definitions of Bill C-20, there is not a definition of affordability. The idea here was to maintain flexibility.

As we look out, thinking about the statute in perpetuity, as market conditions change, as funding changes and as partnerships change, we want to make sure that, as we think about affordability and about definitions, we're maintaining definitions that can be adjusted. The idea is that, operationally, Build Canada Homes will establish—and has established, as part of its investment policy framework, which was published online—an indication of how it will be defining affordability for the purposes of its investments. In this case, housing is considered affordable when it is less than 30% of before-tax household income. The idea is that this needs to be considered from a regional perspective. Across Canada, affordability is going to look different. It will look different, as well, depending on different income bands. Build Canada Homes has operationally been using that definition of affordability as part of its investment decision-making.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Build Canada Homes will receive applications for funding, loan guarantees or whatever it might be for different projects. On an operating principle, it will use this 30% of income as a general rule for adjudicating those applications. I'm sure there will be more applications than it has money to spend on. Is that generally how it will work?

[Lindsay Boldt]

Generally, when the application comes in, they're looking at the depth of affordability and the type of affordable units that a proposal may be outlining. They would then be looking to apply this definition.

They have a tool on the website that is helping proponents to align with this when they're submitting so that when the proposal comes in, they've already gone through the process of identifying the affordability of the units that they're putting forward in their proposal.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Thanks for that.

I have another very specific question. It may be my not understanding how the language of this place works. It's on clause 20.

Clause 20 speaks about the powers. There are lots of powers. You can buy shares in a company. It can be a loan guarantee. It can do all kinds of pretty cool things, I think.

When you go to clause 21, it says, despite everything that was said in clause 20:

the Corporation may provide a loan guarantee only with the Minister of Finance's approval.

I think everyone wants to make it a Crown corporation for the purposes of, I'm assuming, speed and ability to get things done without the painfully slow process that this place has. What I need to understand about that is if we're making it a Crown corporation, how will it do that if it has to get approval from the Minister of Finance?

He's a pretty busy guy, I would assume. Does he have time to be checking the boxes of everything that any bylaw brings him?

[Lindsay Boldt]

First and foremost, I would say that, yes, the FAA does require that the Minister of Finance, when it comes to loan guarantees, approve them in all cases.

There are different processes that Build Canada Homes may use to seek this. There is statutory funding that is identified within this legislation. As the organization moves forward to draw down that funding, those are opportunities and touchpoints with the Minister of Finance. Build Canada Homes will need to operationally set up the most efficient process.

This clause in particular points to the fact that, in order to issue a loan guarantee, they will need to seek approval from the Minister of Finance.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

I want to continue with this, to understand how the place works.

I see that's a standard clause. I was looking back through the enabling legislation for the Canada Infrastructure Bank. That's another example. They had very similar language in it.

I asked Mr. Halucha what that was. He assured me it was very standard language.

Is that standard language an indication that it's the office of the minister? Does François have to sit down and read these notes and sign off...? Is it the office, the ministry, or the actual minister? How does that work exactly?

[Lindsay Boldt]

It is an FAA requirement that the Minister of Finance approve it.

As I understand it, the Minister of Finance will be the one who ultimately is accountable for that decision.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

I get that it's standard in these things.

What specific tools do you see in Bill C-20 in creating a Crown corporation out of Build Canada Homes? What specific tools will this agency have that couldn't have been given to one of the other Crown corporations?

I think about the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation. It's been around for a long time. It was created to solve our first big housing crisis in this country, and by all accounts, it did one hell of a job. Its purpose has changed over time, depending on the needs of what's going on.

What tools will Build Canada Homes be given with this legislation that Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation didn't have?

[Lindsay Boldt]

Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation has a number of powers already. As you said, in many cases we're pointing to similar tools to those CMHC may have available to them.

That said, the idea with Build Canada Homes is to really distinguish between the mandates and have a focus on affordable housing development, whereby they would focus on using the tools in that space. CMHC, likewise, could then focus their efforts and tools on the commercial side of their business, including mortgage loan insurance and the programs that have to support, in large part, the market housing sector. That was the focus moving forward as we delineated between those two organizations.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

That's interesting. Thank you for that.

I would note that when the previous government, or the earlier version of the government, came up with the national housing strategy, the primary vehicle for delivering on those programs—with the exception of a couple of things that went to your department—was the CMHC.

As the discussion continues on what the next iteration of the strategy may be—and maybe you don't know—is it the vision of the government to take those programs away from the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation because they were overloaded and to have them focus on their insurance business again, with Build Canada Homes being the new thing?

[Lindsay Boldt]

In thinking about some of the national housing strategy programs that relate to the affordable housing space, yes, CMHC delivered the affordable housing fund and the community housing development program.

For some of the programs, moving forward, as that current funding has been committed and as those programs wind down, Build Canada Homes will be standing up in that space.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Will there be some clarification for community groups and builders?

One of the concerns I've heard—and I think this has been part of the problem—is that groups have said they've tried to apply to CMHC for a program to get something built and they're told, “Well, you need to go to Build Canada Homes.” Then Build Canada Homes says, “You should probably go talk to the CMHC.”

Will there be anything coming forward from the government that very clearly delineates what types of projects are dealt with at CMHC and what types of projects are dealt with at Build Canada Homes?

I also have a question about the Canada Lands Company and what happens to it next, but I'll start with this one, if you don't mind.

[Lindsay Boldt]

Build Canada Homes is ramping up its capacity and its operations. It is working very closely with CMHC to ensure there is the hand-off with CMHC in the programs that I previously mentioned. It wants to ensure that there is a connection taking place and, moving forward—as you pointed out—that operations are figured out between Build Canada Homes and CMHC, along with how best to communicate this to the sector so that the sector has clarity.

That said, connections will be happening internally as well. There is a desire to ensure that if a proposal comes forward to Build Canada Homes and there are opportunities to leverage and ensure that co-operation is happening with CMHC, it's not simply a matter of batting the ball back out. This is a piece that, as Build Canada Homes ramps up, I know is a preoccupation—to ensure that there is clarity on this and that there is a system by which they are working with and having that channel with CMHC.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Okay. Thank you for that.

If I can just reiterate, I think it's very important, as that is worked out, that this kind of clarity is shared with everybody so that they understand. Time is of the essence on these issues, and being bounced back and forth is probably frustrating and counterproductive.

If you don't mind, I'd like to jump into the Canada Lands Company, because there seems to be some uncertainty about that Crown corporation and how it will now relate to Build Canada Homes.

When we initially talked about Build Canada Homes, it was an agency that would take federal lands and turn them into housing. I pointed out that we have one that does that already, so what will happen to the Canada Lands Company? Is it some kind of subsidiary of Build Canada Homes? Is it still a stand-alone corporation, but Build Canada Homes can just take the projects it likes from it? How will that work?

[Lindsay Boldt]

That's a great question.

In the legislation, we talk about the transfer and the reorganization and wanting to ensure that there are sufficient powers, not only for Build Canada Homes to acquire the real estate and development function that currently resides in CLCL, but also for CLCL to have the ability to organize itself. This will make sure that, in whatever manner the machinery decision transfers over, there will be sufficient flexibility for a number of scenarios. In that way, moving over the real estate and development functions can be done in as seamless a way as possible.

It also provides the powers so that CLCL considers their mandate, their more attractions-focused mandate, and how they need to reorganize themselves as an organization once the real estate and development function has transitioned over to Build Canada Homes. Really, this is in the desire to maximize moving it from one organization, to maximize it with the financing arm and, it is hoped, to have the biggest impact when building affordable housing at scale.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Can I ask, then, if Build Canada Homes will have the power to adopt and take over projects from Canada Lands Company?

[Lindsay Boldt]

If those projects—the properties, the assets, the liabilities, the obligations—that CLCL has in the space of the mandate that Build Canada Homes is taking on in that development of affordable housing on public lands.... It's any of those obligations and assets. That's the piece that needs to be worked out. In the legislation, we have the authorities to ensure that it's organized in such a way. Yes, Build Canada Homes would take on and would take over for those projects, for those properties, for those assets and for obligations that CLCL may have on certain properties in those spaces.