Evidence of meeting #34 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was documents.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
Madame Larouche, I gave you the floor on the understanding that you had a point of order.
If not, I have to return to Mr. Genuis.
Bloc
Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC
I just wanted to add my voice to what's been said, but I'll wait.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
Thank you.
Mr. Genuis, I'll remind you that the meeting is in consideration of Bill C-20's clause-by-clause.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Yes, that's clearly the item. I was providing some context for how we got here. If you look at the meeting notice, there's no reference to clause-by-clause. There's also no reference to the officials.
I want to pick up on something Ms. Desrochers said and ask it of the officials, because they are here. Somebody clearly told them to be here, even though they weren't officially invited through the meeting notice. I wonder if I could ask the officials if they could each share.... It's curious. Normally, when a witness comes to committee, they are invited and on the meeting notice.
I appreciate your work, and I know you're responsible for working under the direction of ministers, regardless of party. I appreciate your commitment and professionalism. I would like to know who told you to come here today and when you were told, because there's no meeting notice that would have.... I assume there was no invitation from the chair. Normally, the chair invites and schedules witnesses, and those names appear on the meeting notice.
I wonder if our officials could share how that came about.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
Thank you.
Ms. Boldt, do you want to comment briefly? Then I'll come to it.
Lindsay Boldt Director General, Housing Policy Branch, Department of Housing, Infrastructure and Communities
We are definitely closely following the review of this committee, and we want to make sure that we are ready to be available and to appear as needed.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
I appreciate that. That wasn't quite my question, though. Were you—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
As chair of the committee, it's my responsibility to set the agenda on meetings and to call those.
When I was looking at the schedule today, I could not predetermine how long resumption of debate would go on, so I instructed the clerk to have witnesses for Bill C-20 on standby who are here in Ottawa and prepared for Bill C-20. It was under my instructions to the clerk to have the witnesses who would be required to discuss clause-by-clause for Bill C-20, should we get to Bill C-20, and this is where we are.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I appreciate your providing some context for that just for information. I do understand that part of the process is that I can ask officials questions. I also have a few other questions related to aspects of these definitions, if Ms. Boldt or others want to clarify.
It sounds like what the chair is saying is that you received an invitation from the chair to be here—or from the clerk on behalf of the chair—and I'd like to know when that invitation was issued and when you were told that the clause-by-clause was going to be happening today. I know that there are a lot of other people—not just officials, but people in civil society and elsewhere—who are very concerned about the issues around Bill C-20. They did not have the courtesy of any heads-up that this was happening. Obviously, officials get information that the general public doesn't, but I would like to know when that invitation was issued.
You keep glancing at the chair. It's a simple question.
Liberal
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Through the chair, I'd like to ask the witnesses.
Director General, Housing Policy Branch, Department of Housing, Infrastructure and Communities
Through the chair, we followed the sequencing of the review that the committee was looking to undertake. We made note of the dates and wanted to ensure that if you got to a clause-by-clause and there was a desire to have departmental officials available to respond, we would be ready. Should there be a need to get into the clause-by-clause and have us participate, we are here if that is the desire of the committee and if that is where you get to today.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
I appreciate that, and I'm not trying to put you on the spot. I'm just asking for simple information.
I'm especially curious now, because what you're saying is different from what the chair said. What the chair shared with us is that he had, through the clerk, asked certain witnesses to be on standby. I don't know if he asked the witnesses from whom we didn't get to hear at the last meeting—because of the government filibuster—to be on standby. I don't know if he wants to weigh in on that, on whether there were others he had on standby related to other things the committee had been doing, especially since this is formally the continuation of a previous meeting. It's not a new meeting. It's a new day, but according to the rules, this is the same meeting that we started a week ago.
The explanation of the chair is that your presence here is the result of an invitation to be on standby. It sounds as though, through the chair, Ms. Boldt is saying that officials were following proceedings and making decisions on their own to be present based on guesses about how the committee might hypothetically unfold.
I wonder if you can clarify whether you were invited to be on standby, or whether you, in following these things, came to this conclusion on your own. I think the public will want to know this, because we're supposed to be accountable and transparent about the work we're doing, and there was no meeting notice about the fact that clause-by-clause was happening today. The government knew something. You guys maybe knew something, or maybe you were here based on a guess about a hypothetical. Through the chair, I wonder if Ms. Boldt could clarify that for us.
Director General, Housing Policy Branch, Department of Housing, Infrastructure and Communities
Absolutely. There definitely was, through parliamentary affairs channels. We understood that we should be on standby. It aligned with our understanding of the review schedule. Yes, that was also through the clerk. We did receive notice that today may be the timing for the committee to go through the clause-by-clause.
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
As I told you, Mr. Genuis, you direct the questions through me and wait until I address you.
For the clarification of the committee, at the March 26 meeting it was agreed that the committee would commence clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-20, an act respecting the establishment of Build Canada Homes, on Thursday, April 30, 2026. That was a decision of the committee back then. I would expect that witnesses would be there.
As I indicated, in my review with the clerk, in ensuring that the calendar is used appropriately, I said in my discussion that we would prepare for whether the debate continued from where it was suspended for the full hours, and if not, what the option was. The option I chose was to proceed with clause-by-clause of Bill C-20. The witnesses required for that are here in Ottawa, and if we didn't get there, it would not be....
The witnesses before you are the ones who are here for clause-by-clause. That's what the meeting is on at the moment.
Go ahead, Mr. Genuis.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Thank you, Chair.
I will say, very respectfully, just in response to your comments, that it is April 30 in the wider world, but it is April 23 in this room. This is the continuation of a meeting that began on April 23. It was agreed that there would be four meetings dealing with the substance in terms of hearing from witnesses with respect to the bill. That fourth meeting, which we are in the middle of now, the meeting of April 23, is still going on.
The committee did not adjourn. There was a Liberal filibuster to prevent documents from being released. I think the fact that government members have unilaterally pursued moving to clause-by-clause without a meeting notice, without information to the public and without a heads-up to the many, many people across the spectrum of interest who are concerned about this issue—
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Am I not speaking into the mic properly?
Liberal
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Thank you, Chair.
Is it working now?
Okay. Good.
I can continue in French, if you like.
That would be my response to the argument of the chair in this regard.
Through you, Chair, I'll go back to the witnesses.
Thank you for clarifying that there was an invitation from the chair and the clerk through parliamentary affairs. Just to follow up on that, I'll go back to my initial question: When was that invitation received?
Director General, Housing Policy Branch, Department of Housing, Infrastructure and Communities
We confirmed in the department earlier this week that there was a possibility that the committee was going to be meeting, that they needed to complete the previous meeting, that it had yet not ended and that there was the potential for clause-by-clause to be covered. That's when we ensured that we were available this morning if it was where you went.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
I'm not trying to be difficult here, but you understand that “earlier this week” provides a pretty broad range. Let me re-ask my question: When precisely was that invitation received?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
Mr. Genuis, I can answer that. I directed the clerk, at our meeting on Wednesday, to advise the witnesses who would be required from the department on Bill C-20. I would assume that it went sometime yesterday afternoon.