Human Resources Committee on June 4th, 2026

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you very much. You talked about responsibility too.

Mr. Keesmaat, in less than 30 seconds, could you add anything about this topic? Would it be a good idea to transfer the money to Quebec and the provinces, since they're more familiar with their needs in terms of housing starts?

[Jennifer Keesmaat]

I think that any instances—

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Sorry, I made a mistake. I meant to address Mr. Collins‑Williams.

[Mike Collins-Williams]

I couldn't agree more with what Jennifer Keesmaat said. With respect to the differentiation between the different provinces, we don't have a national housing market, and, in some ways, I don't even think we have provincial housing markets. We have a series of regional housing markets based on the large census metropolitan areas.

In my—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Rosemarie Falk]

Thank you, Mr. Collins-Williams. I'm sorry, but you'll have to finish that when we come back to Madame Larouche.

Mr. Reynolds, you have the floor for five minutes, please.

[Colin Reynolds, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you very much, witnesses, for being here today. I really appreciate your time.

I spent 20 years in the construction industry as a general foreman. In 2021, I worked on a 16-storey residential project.

Madam Keesmaat, you were talking about at what point a project is measured as a start.

For some context, long before I was even on site—probably three or four months—I was assigned to work on that project as the supervisor, and I was already working on layouts and design. It had only a one-level underground parkade, but it probably took six months to dig the hole and pour the base for the tower crane. Then it was another six months to start foundations. It was probably 18 months before we were above grade, and I would have to say that was close to two years.

In the construction industry, we would typically consider a job start when the contract was signed. That meant we knew the money was going to start to flow and we could mobilize to site and start digging a hole.

Madam Keesmaat, in your opinion, what is the right time to count a project as a housing start?

[Jennifer Keesmaat]

I appreciate your breadth of experience on this issue.

We, too, are a construction company. We build all of our own projects.

I would argue that we should be counting based on the outcome that we want to measure. What's the objective of what we're trying to understand? At different points in the process, we get different information.

I would argue that we need to be measuring a whole variety of different indicators throughout the housing process, precisely because there are different things we're told when a deal is put together and assembled, when a municipal approval is achieved, when the project is tendered and when construction actually begins.

Right now, we don't have enough information. We are probably measuring the wrong thing at the wrong time.

I also think we don't have clarity as to what we're doing with that information. What is that information telling us in terms of how we should be developing policy and creating better outcomes in the housing market? I don't think we have clarity on that today.

[Colin Reynolds, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you.

My next question is for you, Mr. Collins-Williams.

In your opening statement, you mentioned an issue or a problem with mortgage policy. Could you expand on that? Is that making it difficult for people to purchase homes and get mortgages?

[Mike Collins-Williams]

I think the stress test was created in a different interest rate environment. At that time, interest rates were at rock bottom. There was no way to go but up, over time.

I think it was prudent at the time to have that buffer. At that time, when anybody, whether it was an individual or a couple, entering the housing market was going to renew, it was almost certainly going to be higher, as renewals are right now.

Right now, we're in a much more stable interest rate environment, so many well-qualified buyers are potentially being unnecessarily excluded, and this suppresses home ownership and housing starts.

We think that reforming the stress test is essentially a zero-cost policy measure. That doesn't necessarily mean that the stress test needs to go away entirely, but it would be prudent for the government to take a careful look at the stress test and at what our current interest rate environment is, as we're in a more “normal” interest rate environment. That could, perhaps, increase housing activity without actually costing the government any money at all.

A lot of the programs we have in place that are doing some good things to help get below-market affordable housing built or that are looking at tax measures on the GST or development charges, etc., do have a cost to the treasury, whereas this would be an important public policy consideration for the government to look at that wouldn't cost anything.

[Colin Reynolds, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you.

I have only 10 seconds left, so I'm going to ask Ms. Keesmaat a quick question.

You mentioned tariffs on the windows that were being purchased for a building. Were they tariffs or countertariffs?

[Jennifer Keesmaat]

I believe they were countertariffs.

[Colin Reynolds, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Rosemarie Falk]

Thank you very much, MP Reynolds.

Now we will go to MP Joseph for five minutes.

[Natilien Joseph, Liberal, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I also want to thank the witnesses for giving us their time. Time management is very important, as we know. It's important for us too.

Ms. Keesmaat, we know that the challenges in residential construction vary considerably depending on the type of project. Could you explain the main differences between building single-family homes, high-rise multi-unit buildings and mid-rise apartment buildings, meaning buildings four to eight storeys high?

[Jennifer Keesmaat]

We do not build single-family homes at our company, so I do not have expertise in that area. We build small mid-rise buildings from six storeys up, and our tallest building under construction today is 40 storeys. We build everything in between.

There's a significant difference in the regulatory process with respect to each one of those projects, as well as in how financing is achieved. There's also a distinction between rental and condos. As is quite well known, the pre-sale model—which I believe Dr. Moffat spoke to in his deputation—is a model that no longer works in this economic climate. That is really creating a freeze in the development of new multi-unit...for ownership.

With respect to smaller mid-rise buildings, the entitlements process is particularly burdensome and one of the greatest risks. The high cost of upgrades to infrastructure is carried by a smaller number of units. That, too, creates a real problem when developing smaller units.

[Natilien Joseph, Liberal, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Okay. I have another question about smaller buildings.

Mid-rise buildings are often mentioned as a promising solution for increasing housing supply. What measures should governments focus on in order to encourage the development of more projects in this category?

[Jennifer Keesmaat]

Mid-rise buildings are potentially part of the solution in the future. We have multiple mid-rise buildings, including cross-laminated timber buildings, under construction.

The biggest constraint right now is that this industry continues to be in its infancy and needs to scale. By advancing modern methods of construction—particularly in creating a broader pipeline for modern methods of construction on publicly owned lands—Build Canada Homes will, I believe, potentially play a really significant role in driving opportunity in the industry with respect to mid-rise buildings of anywhere between six and 12 storeys.

This is one of those instances where there's a very long pipeline between the policy being implemented and the outcomes we see. Having clear policy around larger buildings in existing neighbourhoods with existing infrastructure made with sustainable materials like cross-laminated timber—and then staying the course and getting through the start-up phase of incubating that industry—will be very critical to a longer-term driver of creating new housing supply across the country.

[Natilien Joseph, Liberal, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Collins‑Williams, a number of solutions have been suggested for quickly increasing the supply of housing, such as leveraging publicly owned land and relying more on prefabricated housing. What role could these two approaches play in helping us address current housing challenges, in terms of both costs and construction timelines?

[Mike Collins-Williams]

Utilizing government-owned land is a significant opportunity across the country.

Land is one of the largest cost components for a new housing project. It depends where it is. Urban lands are often more expensive than suburban or rural lands. This is where we see opportunities for partnerships. The private sector has significant expertise and experience. If there are opportunities to partner with government—be it local municipalities, provinces or the federal government—in utilizing those public lands, that would be a significant way to bring costs down. Whether it's partnering—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Rosemarie Falk]

Thank you very much, Mr. Collins-Williams and MP Joseph.

Next, we have Madame Larouche for two and a half minutes.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Ms. Keesmaat, again, thank you so much for taking part in this study.

For my second round of questions, I'm going to start with you, Mr. Collins‑Williams.

You and the other witness both talked about how tough it is nowadays for new households to get on the property ladder. A number of federal programs focus on rental housing, but what can we do to ensure that families are also able to buy homes? What measures could be taken? Maybe you could reiterate some measures that could help them buy a home.

[Mike Collins-Williams]

To clarify, are you asking about access to rental properties?

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

I'm talking about buying a first home or measures to help them in the rental market. I'd like you to talk about measures to help families buy their first home or even just to find housing that meets their needs and wants.

[Mike Collins-Williams]

There is a housing crisis today. The basic fact is that there is a delta between what people can afford and what it costs to actually build and deliver new housing, be that ownership housing or purpose-built rental. Unfortunately, over the last number of years, that delta has grown. We've ended up in a situation where the average middle-class person or family can no longer afford to participate in the housing market in the way that previous generations could. There is no opportunity for the middle class to build wealth over time.

Ultimately, we need the private sector and all three levels of government to be rowing in the same direction to tighten up that delta between average incomes and the cost to build housing. Ultimately, they need to deliver that housing. There have been a number of conversations with previous delegates. Earlier, there were presentations by both Ms. Keesmaat and I that were related to different measures to bring down the cost, and part of that is regulatory.

My background is in urban planning. I'm a professional planner. The planning sector needs to take a good, hard look in the mirror in terms of the role that planning has played in the current housing crisis. We need to compress timelines, because ultimately time is money. The length of time it takes to get projects through the approvals process has grown significantly over the last couple of decades.

I wouldn't point my finger at the federal government, the provinces or the municipalities. It's been a combined effort that has occurred over the last couple of decades. There needs to be an incredible focus on not just reducing red tape but compressing timelines and enabling decisions to be made earlier and more quickly.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Rosemarie Falk]

Thank you very much.

For the next round, we will go to MP Goodridge for five minutes, please.