Human Resources Committee on Oct. 6th, 2026

[The Chair (Robert Morrissey (Egmont, Lib.)), Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Good morning, committee members.

Welcome to meeting number 47 of the Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities. Pursuant to the order of reference received on Wednesday, September 23, 2026, the committee is meeting on Bill C-266, an act to establish a national framework respecting skilled trades and labour mobility.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the Standing Orders. Participants may be participating virtually or in the room.

There are a couple of items I'd like to review before we begin.

To those participating, you have the right to participate in today's meeting in the official language of your choice. If you're in the room, please select the channel that gives you the language that you will be participating in. If you're appearing virtually, please click on the globe icon at the bottom of your Surface and select the language of your choice. If there is an interruption of interpretation services, please get my attention. We'll suspend while it is being corrected.

As well, for those in the room, please make sure your devices are on silent mode. Please refrain from tapping on the boom in front of you. This is for the protection of the interpreters.

Please direct all questions through me, the chair. Wait until I recognize you by name before proceeding.

We have two panels today. One is beginning shortly with two witnesses, and then we'll have the second one.

I have Ms. Falk raising her hand before I get to the introduction of witnesses.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster—Meadow Lake, SK]

Thank you so much, Chair.

This is minor housekeeping. Is it possible that you could direct the clerk to provide committee members with an updated draft working calendar with the changes from the past meetings? I don't believe we have one of those. That would be great.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Falk.

We had discussed that, and we'll accommodate it.

Today, we are hearing from witnesses on Bill C-266.

I would like to welcome our witnesses for the first panel. From Canada's Building Trades Unions, we have Sean Strickland, executive director. From the Heating, Refrigeration and Air Conditioning Institute of Canada, we have Martin Luymes, vice-president of government and stakeholder relations.

Each witness has up to five minutes for their opening statement. Speak slowly for the benefit of the interpreters.

We'll begin with you, Mr. Strickland, for up to five minutes.

[Sean Strickland, Executive Director, Canada's Building Trades Unions]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to the committee for having me here today.

As the chairman mentioned, my name is Sean Strickland. I'm the executive director of Canada's Building Trades Unions. We're the national voice for more than 500,000 skilled trades workers across Canada. Our 14 affiliated unions represent workers in more than 60 different trades and occupations.

Firstly, CBTU is in full support of the goal of improving labour mobility. It is important to our members and to the future of Canada's economy to make it easier for skilled trades workers to move to where the work is. We've been working on this issue for years. We need to keep training workers in the communities where they live and where the work is happening, but mobility is how the industry works. Our members often travel far from home to follow major projects and go to work.

The problem is that workers face different rules when they move from one province to another. Bill C-266 is an opportunity to fix some of this and get some important things right, even with the Red Seal trades. The Red Seal system is vital and should be strengthened. However, we still have cases where trade in one province is not recognized the same way in another, and not every skilled trade is deemed a Red Seal trade. This can and should be improved and modernized, but it should not be overhauled. Mainly, the Red Seal system is working. Any improvements need to strengthen the system, not weaken it.

A national approach needs to look at the full range of skilled trades. Provinces don't even all agree on whether a trade is compulsory—that is, whether you need a licence to practise that trade. We need to understand and map those differences so qualified workers aren't facing unnecessary barriers when they move.

We also need to get safety right. When we talk about safety harmonization, we should be harmonizing up, not down. We can stop forcing workers to repeat the same safety training just because they cross provincial borders, while also making sure we're always moving to the highest safety standard. It's good for the industry, good for the economy and good for workers.

National digitization is another way we can support labour mobility—again, as long as we do it right. Digital credentials and other tools can make it much easier for workers to prove their qualifications and move quickly, but privacy and security need to be built into that work from the beginning.

Finally, this bill points to a bigger issue. Clause 3 calls for “at least nine months” of consultation. We suggest that the consultation should be ongoing. That consultation includes labour unions and calls for mapping provincial credentials, reducing duplication and ongoing collaboration. It's all very good stuff and should proceed.

The workforce planning problem doesn't end when a framework like this is tabled. That is why CBTU is proposing a labour supply coordinating committee, so we can understand both the demand for workers and the supply of workers from the beginning, before the shovel gets into the ground. How many workers, what trades and when are the questions Canada needs to answer as we build these large-scale industrial and infrastructure projects. The labour supply coordinating committee could look at project timelines, trade-by-trade labour demand, apprenticeship capacity, worker mobility and where workers are available across the country. It could match workers from areas of high unemployment to areas with excess worker demand in real time. It could also help us understand where we need to build local training and apprenticeship capacity and where workers may need to move to meet demand.

This needs to be led by unionized labour. Unionized labour is the closest to the workforce. We know what is happening on job sites, where workers are available, where there are shortages and where training capacity exists.

This is not just about training more people. It is about knowing what Canada will need, training the right people in the right trades at the right time and making sure we can get them to where the work is. Optimizing jobs for Canadian skilled trades workers is the primary objective. This is how we build a skilled workforce that can meet Canada's needs. Our members have proven we can build the projects Canada needs, wherever they are. We're ready to work together to build what's next.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I look forward to the committee's questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Strickland.

Now we'll move to Mr. Luymes for up to five minutes.

[Martin Luymes, Vice-President, Government and Stakeholder Relations, Heating, Refrigeration and Air-Conditioning Institute of Canada]

Mr. Chair and members of the committee, good morning and thank you for the opportunity to speak about Bill C-266.

My name is Martin Luymes. I am vice-president of government and stakeholder relations at the Heating, Refrigeration and Air Conditioning Institute of Canada, or HRAI.

HRAI supports the objective of making it easier for qualified tradespeople to work across Canada. We believe this framework can help with that goal, provided it connects labour mobility with workforce development, maintains confidence in trade qualifications and respects provincial and territorial responsibilities.

Founded in 1968, HRAI is a national not-for-profit association representing more than 1,150 manufacturers, wholesalers and contractors in the heating, ventilation, air conditioning and refrigeration industry. Our members collectively employ more than 50,000 people. HRAI also provides industry training and guidance on codes, standards and best practices, though our training is all considered supplemental to trades training and apprenticeships.

Our contractor members hire and train apprentices. They install and service the systems that heat Canadian homes, cool workplaces, ventilate buildings and keep food refrigerated. Their work is essential to public health, comfort and economic activity. Our interest in the bill is therefore very practical. Canada needs enough qualified people to deliver those services in every region. Housing construction, energy efficiency improvements and the adoption of heat pumps all depend on that capacity. A national framework should help a qualified worker find opportunities across provincial boundaries, help employers meet demand and give consumers confidence that the person doing the work has the necessary skills to do the job safely and competently.

These are our asks.

First, labour mobility is an important part of ensuring a sufficient supply of skilled workers across the country. Demand for our member services varies by region and by season. Construction activity, retrofit programs and changes in heating and cooling demand can create pressure in one market while excess capacity may be available elsewhere.

We welcome the bill's proposals to map credential equivalencies and reduce duplication. That mapping should explain what workers are qualified to do. Similar trade titles do not necessarily describe identical scopes of practice, and different titles do not necessarily mean different competencies.

At the same time, moving workers across the country cannot by itself increase the total number of qualified people. A national strategy must also strengthen local apprenticeship pipelines and help experienced workers update their skills. Otherwise, mobility may simply transfer a shortage from one community to another.

This brings me to our second point: Credential recognition must be supported by needed investments in training. In our May 2026 federal pre-budget submission, HRAI called for broader support for apprentices and employers in compulsory trades serving the residential HVACR sector. We also called for support to develop appropriate, interprovincially consistent residential HVAC trades training with the aim of certifying 5,000 workers by 2035.

In our letter to Minister Hajdu, we raised a specific concern about restricting new apprenticeship income support to Red Seal trades. Ontario's residential air conditioning systems mechanic trade, known as the 313D, illustrates the issue of concern. It's a compulsory trade with prescribed training and certification requirements, but it is not yet a Red Seal trade. Our position is that apprentices in compulsory, high-demand trades should have access to support during mandatory technical training. Red Seal status should not be the sole test of whether their training deserves federal support.

We encourage a collaborative approach involving employers, organized labour, colleges, regulators and governments. The framework should use evidence to assess positive possible training pathways and maintain the competencies needed for safe, effective work.

Third, labour mobility must be accompanied by stronger enforcement of provincial trades training and certification requirements. Credential portability depends on confidence in the credential being recognized. Workers, employers and consumers need to know that qualifications have meaning and that rules governing compulsory trades are applied consistently.

Fourth, the framework must be realistic about federal authority. Education and the regulation of trades are primarily provincial responsibilities. Territorial governments also administer their own training and certification systems. Decisions about compulsory certification, apprenticeship requirements, scopes of practice, and enforcement generally rest with those governments and their regulatory bodies.

Bill C-266 would require federal ministers to develop a framework, consult stakeholders and report to Parliament. It would not itself replace provincial trade laws, issue provincial licences or compel every province to adopt identical requirements. We support the bill's recognition of provincial and territorial jurisdiction. Harmonization would require co-operation and, where necessary, changes made by the governments and regulators responsible for those requirements.

In closing, Mr. Chair and members of the committee, HRAI welcomes the opportunity that this bill represents. We ask you to preserve the broad coverage of skilled trades, including those outside the Red Seal designation; connect mobility with accessible training and apprenticeship support; encourage credible provincial enforcement; and establish a practical implementation plan that respects jurisdictional authorities and measures results.

Qualified workers should be able to use their skills where they are needed. Employers should have confidence in the qualifications they rely on. Canadians should be able to trust the people installing and servicing essential heating, cooling and refrigeration systems. HRAI would welcome the opportunity to contribute our industry experience and training expertise to the development of this framework.

Thank you. I would be pleased to answer any questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Luymes.

We'll begin the first round of questioning, which is six minutes each, with Mr. Reynolds.

[Colin Reynolds, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's nice to see you again.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

You as well. It's good to see you back.

[Colin Reynolds, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you, witnesses, for coming today.

This is a very important issue to me. I have been a Red Seal electrician for 20 years, and I am a 20-year member of the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers. As somebody who's actually gone through the apprenticeship program, I can say this is something that's very near and dear to my heart. Trades mobility is very important to this country.

One thing that I think is a big issue is apprenticeship mobility. Apprentices are registered in their respective provinces, and they train in their respective provinces. For example, an apprentice who works and is registered in Manitoba can't work in Saskatchewan or Ontario, and I think that's a big barrier.

My first question is for you, Mr. Strickland. What other barriers currently exist for trades workers who want to move between provinces?

[Sean Strickland]

MP Reynolds, you highlighted an important one there with apprenticeships and the mobility and recognition of apprentices from one province to another. In the training regime for your trade, to be a certified electrician in Ontario takes about 9,000 hours. To be a licensed electrician in Alberta, it's 6,200 hours. I think you were telling me before the meeting that it's 7,100 hours in—

[Colin Reynolds, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

It's 7,200 in Manitoba.

[Sean Strickland]

It's 7,200 hours in Manitoba, so you have varying degrees of requirements for different trades, even through the apprenticeship. Even through the recognition of the licence there are variations from province to province.

The other big barrier, which I mentioned in my opening remarks, is around safety harmonization. You can get a working at heights certificate in Ontario, for example, but if you go to work in Alberta, it's not recognized. You have to sit in a classroom and take what is essentially that same course all over again because they're recognizing that the authoritative body in that province is different from the one in the province you came from.

There are many barriers with respect to safety harmonization where there has been work under way. That work needs to have a tighter timeline in some of these areas where they can achieve safety harmonization. Of course, it's all in provincial jurisdiction. The federal government can facilitate the provinces to move in the right direction.

The time is right. If ever there was a better time for us to get some of these things right, I can't think of one.

[Colin Reynolds, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you.

I have the same question for you, Mr. Luymes. What barriers do you see in your industry? I'm sure they're similar to those in the electrical industry, but if you could comment on that, I'd appreciate it.

[Martin Luymes]

In our industry, our members employ a variety of trades, including electricians, but primarily refrigeration technicians, mechanics, gas technicians, plumbers, sheet metal mechanics and a few others. As Mr. Strickland said, the requirements differ from one province to the next.

We also have the challenge that in some jurisdictions, the way the licence is regulated is quite different. As a case in point, the gas technician licence is a trade in some provinces, but not in others. In Ontario, it's not even regulated under the same regulatory body; it's under the fuel safety regulator, the TSSA, and that creates challenges if there's no apprenticeship to be served there. It makes it difficult for that program to be aligned with others across the country where it could be designated as a Red Seal trade. That's a simple example.

We have a particular challenge in our sector in the residential space where we're seeing decarbonization policies or programs—electrification, if you want to call it that. We're seeing a shift in technology, and we therefore need to see a shift in skills. The problem is that the way the residential sector is regulated varies quite considerably from province to province. We need to see some harmonization there to allow for our members and technicians to adapt to the changing needs of the marketplace in a consistent way across the country.

[Colin Reynolds, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you.

With so many of the issues being provincial issues, do you see anything in this bill that might entice the provinces to co-operate or collaborate with each other or nationally to get to the point where people can move interprovincially?

[Sean Strickland]

That's a fundamental question of Confederation, I think, MP Reynolds. It's moral suasion.

As I said, the timing is right. There's more provincial-federal co-operation right now in a variety of areas because of the threat to our economic sovereignty, so there's an opportunity to look at some of these issues.

From my perspective, as the regulation of the trade is provincial, I think it's going to be very difficult for the federal government to try to get into that space, but the safety harmonization piece, for example, is low-hanging fruit. Maybe there are things that can be done in the Red Seal designation. As Martin alluded to, not all trades are recognized as Red Seal. A drywall installer, for example, is not a Red Seal trade. A cement mason is not a Red Seal trade. There are things that can be done at the edges that won't take a lot of arm-twisting to get done to help us move in the right direction.

I think safety harmonization is something that everyone can get behind, because through that harmonization effort, if we're able to raise the standard and improve the safety of all workers in Canada, how can you argue against that?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Reynolds.

Mr. Villeneuve, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Louis Villeneuve, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, gentlemen, and welcome.

I'm going to start with Mr. Strickland.

During his testimony before the committee, the sponsor of the bill specified certain gaps that the bill seeks to address in terms of governance and the implementation of standards in the skilled trades, among other things.

What gaps have you seen in the governance and implementation of the standards?

[Sean Strickland]

The gaps are similar to the conversation that we were having with MP Reynolds. On the Red Seal trade system, for example, not all trades are recognized as Red Seal. Some are recognized as Red Seal in some provinces and not recognized as such in other provinces.

You have the differences between compulsory and voluntary trades. A compulsory trade means that you have to have a licence to practise that trade, and not all provinces recognize the licensing requirements. One trade might not need a licence to practise in one province but requires a licence to practise in another province. There's a whole host of examples—a construction electrician, a structural ornamental ironworker, a reinforcing ironworker, a carpenter—with different regulations determining whether or not a worker who goes to work has a licence to perform that work, whereas in another province they won't need the licence.

This impacts safety. For example, British Columbia deregulated the whole industry. The government there is now trying to bring it back, but you didn't even need a licence to operate an overhead crane there, whereas in Ontario and most other provinces in Canada, you need a licence to operate an overhead crane.

These are glaring examples, and there are other examples that are less evident in terms of compulsory and voluntary recognition. In safety harmonization, there's a huge gap between the provinces. In the Red Seal designation, there is compulsory and voluntary, and there are probably a few others. To map it—the bill is talking about mapping out these differences—would be a really good start so that we can have a comprehensive overview of this and then begin to tackle the problem.

[Louis Villeneuve, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you.

To follow up on that, to what extent do you think this bill would address those gaps in governance and implementation of standards?

[Sean Strickland]

This is what the bill is calling for: list all the skilled trades, map credential equivalents and identify barriers. By putting it all there, having the consultation period and putting it on the table.... This is comprehensive. If we were just talking about construction trades, from my perspective, there are like 60 construction trades. There are hundreds of trades in Canada. I don't know to what extent this bill is limited in its scope, but by having that mapping to begin with, through the mapping process you'll be able to identify some of the things that MP Villeneuve alluded to in terms of compulsory versus voluntary.

Why does one province consider it important for you to have a licence? You have to pass a test. You have to have a licence to be an HVAC installer. You have to pass a test, but in another province, you don't need to pass a test. That doesn't make sense, so let's get it on the table. Let's shine some light on it and try to figure it out.

[Louis Villeneuve, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you for that.

Mr. Luymes, since coming to power, our government has been focused on growing the Canadian economy. What positive economic impacts do you think removing barriers to labour mobility in the skilled trades could have nationally?

[Martin Luymes]

In terms of economic growth, this is a barrier. The lack of harmonization is a barrier to growth because it prevents workers from working where they could be most productively used, as I indicated in my opening statement.

In our sector, we see a tremendous opportunity associated with electrification. I mentioned this already. If there's a barrier to progress in transforming Canadian homes and buildings from fossil fuel usage to electrified forms of heating, the barrier is the lack of competent workers to do that type of work. That's holding back progress that could be growth for the industry. It could be good for Canadians during this electrification push and obviously could be a job creator.

On the lack of harmonization, as Mr. Strickland mentioned, I'll give you a specific example of a gap that was in existence in British Columbia. The government decided that there weren't sufficient numbers of workers to do residential HVAC work on electric heat pumps, so they deregulated the trade. The trade that existed was the refrigeration trade, and there were very few people who held that licence working in residential. The solution identified by the government was to deregulate all equipment under a certain size, effectively making the residential space unregulated.

In our view, that's not a good solution. A better solution is to look at what's happening in other provinces where trades have been developed specifically to serve the needs of that sector. They are compulsory. They're not Red Seal, but they are available. The examples of those certifications could have been applied in British Columbia. That's a very practical example of a limitation that exists today.

[Louis Villeneuve, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you for that.

I think my time is up, Mr. Chair. Thank you.