Human Resources Committee on Oct. 2nd, 2025

[Alexandre Gagnon]

Thank you for the question.

There are still a few challenges, and we've been talking about them for a number of years.

Young people are currently being trained for jobs that will evolve significantly as a result of artificial intelligence, automation and all the upcoming changes.

Unfortunately, educational institutions lack the resources to adapt their programs accordingly. Nowadays, it can take up to seven years to adapt a study program, even though the environment is changing rapidly. In fact, the daily reality faced by businesses changes every two or three years. Obviously, this means that the study programs aren't up to date.

It's necessary to focus more on lifelong learning by encouraging young people to continue their education throughout their careers. Training programs must be a bit shorter and more oriented towards basic skills, including digital literacy.

Young workers need assistance, but their employers also need tools to support young people throughout their careers. This will ensure that young people can adapt more easily to the upcoming technological changes. This is one of the major challenges ahead of us.

In addition, there are geographical challenges. My colleague, Mr. Pageau, spoke about this. Each region faces completely different realities. Decisions regarding investments, national programs or immigration must take into account the regional characteristics and disparities found across Canada. In particular, the different regions of Quebec face completely different realities.

The measures implemented must focus on partnerships with regional organizations, particularly youth employment centres and chambers of commerce, to ensure that these measures meet the specific needs of each region and take into account the infrastructure and industrial landscape.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Madame Gill.

Ms. Falk, go ahead for five minutes.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster—Meadow Lake, SK]

Thank you very much, Chair.

I would like to thank the witnesses for taking the time to be here and to share their experiences with our committee.

Mr. Johnson, I would like to start with you, if possible. In your opening remarks, you made some comments regarding skill sets, that there is a shortage of skills. I am just wondering if you could expand a little on that. What exactly do you mean by shortage of skills?

[Robert Johnson]

I am in manufacturing, as I mentioned earlier, so I would say tradespeople—from electricians and millwrights to programmers in software and robotics, and expanding beyond that from the point of view of skills. There are a lot of people who come into the workforce who might go to school for engineering or something else, but they lack the skills to be able to bring value to the company.

I am constantly competing against a number of other companies. One of the things is strong, mechanically capable people in manufacturing. We are fairly automated, and as we bring in more and more automation, we require a different level of skill set in order to maintain that automation. It is a challenge to find the skill set in the environment we live in today.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster—Meadow Lake, SK]

Thank you.

You said that you were in manufacturing, so that would be one facet of the economy.

We are in a housing crisis in this country. The government has promised to build all these houses, but what we are finding, and what this committee has found in previous Parliaments, is that the tradespeople don't have the skill set to do that. How are we going to build everything that we need to power Canada, to house Canadians and to manufacture our goods if we don't have the tradespeople to do that? That's very important to point out. We need those tradespeople to keep the lights on, to build the foundations, to build the walls and to do all of those things.

[Robert Johnson]

They could also make a very good wage and a very good living from this, from young electricians to plumbers, to anyone. They're not aware...and I think the investment and their time.... I don't think it's promoted enough to a lot of people compared to what it used to be.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster—Meadow Lake, SK]

Absolutely. I come from a very trade-heavy part of the country. Energy and agriculture are our driving forces, so it's very common for kids to ask other kids what trade school they are going to, what trade they are getting, and we need more of that.

Mr. Rizzo, I'd just like to follow up on something that you spoke about. You mentioned red tape. I'm just wondering if red tape is affecting or having an impact—maybe that's the word I'm looking for—on productivity in the country.

[Perry Rizzo]

Look, I think I have a great scenario for you. I have multiple facilities, and I take the time to walk to all the little industrial units that are around me. At one time, they were filled with little companies that were fabricating and machining, and now they're mostly service sector types of jobs oriented around moving furniture or providing some other type of service.

With respect to your question on red tape, I dropped by a small steel fabricator. He's been doing it for 15 or 25 years out of this unit. A young person came by the other day working for the town. He walked in with an iPad and started writing up infringements. A skid was against the wall—that's an infringement. The air make-up unit was not interlocked—that's an infringement. There was another thing and another thing, and by the end of two hours, there were $5,000 to $8,000 of administrative costs and small details to fix that were working perfectly fine. There were no safety issues, but there was some new compliance.

The owner talked to me and said, “I have $8,000 less to invest in my people. That's $8,000 less that I have to invest in my company.” It's absolutely ridiculous. The number of people employed by the government to be involved with every type of issue, whether it's building.... You can talk about the conservation authorities or the building departments or the municipalities. God forbid, you can't do much in Canada without being saddled with at least 10 levels of something to go through in order to get an objective achieved.

The red tape still exists on every level. I think it's a function of too much government.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Falk.

Ms. Fancy.

[Jessica Fancy-Landry, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Thank you very much to all the witnesses who are here today.

As a former educator, a high school principal and administrator, I've worked for almost two decades with many youth. I might feel like I have a Ph.D. in teenagers, some might say. Most of these youth are entering work for the first time. As a university fellow who studied youth prioritization with regard to policy, but also with regard to protection of youth, I can say that this study is very near and dear to my heart. I just wanted to put on the record today that it's not something that.... The Conservatives have been saying that we've been lacklustre with this study. We are not, because today we are here to listen and learn, and we are seeking solutions.

My first question is for Mr. Johnson.

In your introduction, you said that you hire people without skills. I'm thinking about why you would do this. I am also thinking about your experience with recruiting and retaining workers. What are some of the recruitment and retainment strategies that you use within your manufacturing company?

Thank you.

[Robert Johnson]

I'm sorry if it's maybe misunderstood. I don't hire people who don't have skills.

As for retaining people, the number one thing is that we build a brand in what we do. We try to create a culture that people want to be a part of and an environment that people want to be in. We continue to offer them a career where they can move up.

We have people coming in at a general labour level. We look at them and ask, “What is it you want to do in your life? What is it you want to achieve?” We're able then to show them some sense of a career where they can advance and move from $20 an hour to $80,000 or $100,000-plus a year. We continue to try to provide a vision to people.

However, when it comes to recruiting people, any time we run an ad or deal with anything, we're virtually dealing with people who are immigrants coming into the country, but a lot of the immigrants are not necessarily qualified or speak.... It's very difficult to get, I would say, certain educated people in a certain workforce with respect to that. It is dominated.... I heard from some people the other day that their child showed up for a job. There were 20-some people in line, and they were all willing to work for less and work for cash money.

The employment system in Canada today is largely controlled by many temp agencies. There's a structure that is broken within that system.

[Jessica Fancy-Landry, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Johnson.

I got your answer now. In your introduction, you were telling us that the country was being run by minority groups, and that they were running the show. Thank you for that answer.

I have another question for you. How did federal government supports, such as wage subsidies and co-op programs, play a role in enabling you to hire youth?

[Robert Johnson]

They really haven't played much of a role. It's such a short-term, small incentive program. There's no significant investment to move our company forward. We're focused on finding the best people who can do the job long-term.

Some of the programs where we have worked with the government in the past were associated with capital expenditures, equipment, or one thing or another. We have not realized, taken advantage of, or seen anything that has really been worthwhile with regard to that.

[Jessica Fancy-Landry, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

What you're saying, then, is that you are not taking advantage of any of the federal programs.

My next question is for John Buck. Thank you, Mr. Buck, for being here today.

I'm an alumna of FSWEP, the federal student work experience program, from many years ago—I won't date myself—which I did while studying at university as a poor and vulnerable youth in rural Nova Scotia.

What impact or benefits do you feel programs like the Canada summer jobs, the youth employment and skills strategy, or the one I just mentioned have on young people in minority-language communities or other vulnerable communities?

[John Buck]

These are really significant and important opportunities with respect to addressing the primary challenge that I identified, which is ultimately the skills mismatch—what we have with respect to supply and what the demand is. In many cases, there's a lack of alignment. Programs like this help to actually bridge that gap in many ways. We see students, while they're undertaking their studies, have the opportunity to understand what the employer's needs are and focus the direction of their studies on being an asset to the employer.

I think the experience of the federal student program could be replicated in the private sector—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Mr. Buck, you can finish that later.

Thank you, Ms. Fancy.

We'll now go to Mr. Genuis, for five minutes.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

I'm following the discussion that's happening today with great interest. We're hearing from witnesses about how the system for employment right now is broken. There have been emerging problems over the last 10 years that have gotten us to this point. What we're hearing in response to that is Liberal MPs essentially expressing hurt feelings, or not liking what they're hearing. They are trying to disagree with claims from witnesses about the problems.

I just want to point out that the unemployment numbers are both brutal and objective. The unemployment numbers don't respond to the feelings of anybody around the table. They tell the story. What we're hearing from the witnesses and, more critically, what we're seeing in the Statistics Canada numbers is a demonstration of the failures of the government. You can say, “We've tried to put in place all these programs.” My question is, are those programs working? That's what we see in the numbers. Numbers show that it's not working. The unemployment crisis continues to get worse. Whatever the government says about its efforts, it's not reversing the trend that has resulted from decisions it has made.

With that, I'll turn it over to Mr. Reynolds.

[Colin Reynolds, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you very much.

I'd like to thank all the witnesses for coming here today. I really appreciate your time.

My first question is for Mr. Johnson.

You talked about a lack of skilled trades. Coincidentally, I'm actually a construction electrician. I have been doing that for 20 years. I know what you're talking about. I've found, in my career, that there's not really a push to put people in the trades. There's not really a recognition of the importance of skilled trades. The attitude I've seen in a lot of schools, certainly when I was in high school, was that people who couldn't cut it in university could just go into the trades. I still see that today.

Do you think there's a way we could start to change that opinion? Obviously, we really need skilled tradespeople. How do you think we could start to change that narrative and make it more enticing for young people?

[Robert Johnson]

Yes, first of all, I think you need to bring back some sense of trades inside high schools and places with regard to it. It doesn't seem like there's a lot of that. At the same time, give people an understanding of what kind of money they can make in the trade industry. Kids coming out of electrical, plumbing, millwright or any of that are making a lot more money than the kid coming directly out of engineering. I think having an understanding of the pay you can make, the living you can make and the lifestyle you can live.... I would say that they also have a greater chance of developing and building their own businesses because of the shortage of skilled trades. I think it's also allowing them to understand that the security of the job is way greater and the longevity of that job is a lot greater.

I don't think young people really understand trades as a whole and what they could consider. I don't think many people really understand the choice of their education, their chance of getting a job, what they could earn when they get a job or the percentage chance of getting employment.

[Colin Reynolds, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you.

My next question is for Mr. Buck.

I'm wondering about the programs you offer. Do any of them direct people toward skilled trades?

[John Buck]

Absolutely. Thank you for the question.

Working with the public, private and civil society sectors in a very local context to understand what opportunities exist, we're working directly with employers who are suggesting to us that this is what they need and are asking how to get it. In many cases—and it could be in any one of the industries we've talked about today, like construction or electricity, for example—if there is a need in that way, we're able to work both with the supply and with the talent out there to make sure we're shaping the pipeline in a way that responds to the local needs.

[Colin Reynolds, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Mr. Reynolds, you're the only one who lived within your time. Thank you.

Mr. Joseph, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Natilien Joseph, Liberal, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll turn first to Mr. Genuis.

Congratulations, Mr. Genuis. You missed your calling. You love being in the spotlight. Your place is in Hollywood. It's really unfortunate that you're using youth unemployment for political purposes to make video clips.

I'll now get back to the study under way. We've heard about a decline in productivity. The youth unemployment rate is 14%. Is immigration to blame? That's what I'm wondering. Mr. Genuis is blaming immigration.

I'm a bit confused about whether youth unemployment in Canada stems from foreign workers. Some people talk about 100,000 job vacancies. Others say that 106,000 workers are needed to fill the vacancies.

Mr. Rizzo, has your company used any federal programs such as wage subsidies, apprenticeship incentives or the innovative work‑integrated learning initiative to hire young people?

[Perry Rizzo]

That's no problem. Thank you.

Look, I think there are some programs that are helpful. I want to put it in context. I'm a toolmaker. I'm a tradesman. That's how I started. When I started, over 40 years ago, the incentive to be a toolmaker was $7,200. I was making probably $31,000. It was well known that as an apprentice, I would probably make more mistakes and be more costly to the company for the first five years than they would make off me. Today, my son, who went into the same trade of toolmaking that I went into, has received $4,000 a year. So if we say we're going to invest in tradespeople, and that's 40 years later, then there's something specifically wrong.

There are still investments, and they do help, but I would say they're largely borne by the employer who's committed to those tradespeople. We're employing them and creating income for them while they learn. It's a great program. I am a big fan. Everything should be apprenticeships or paid co-ops. Internships should be banned if they're not paid. I have interns who come and work for me. When it comes to human resources, everyone gets paid. No one works for free in my company. I just don't believe in it.

There are some good programs. We have used them. I just wish that there were more and that they were more in line with what's needed in today's economy.