Human Resources Committee on Oct. 2nd, 2025

[Rudy Humbert]

The current rise in unemployment comes at a time when young people are already extremely cynical. Three quarters of them feel like they are part of a generation that will not do as well as their parents did.

There is truly a need to see how we can take part in the decisions that affect us and see how we can collectively offer a future in which we fully participate. We have to find a way to make sure that every public dollar invested can go directly toward services for young people.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you.

My next questions will be for John Buck.

Thank you for being here. We know that minority-language communities face higher unemployment rates and vulnerabilities, and the Government of Canada has made targeted investments to support youth in these communities. I'd like to know a little bit more from you. Have you encountered challenges with accessing federal grants and contributions?

[John Buck]

Thank you for the question. It's a very important question as we take advantage of these investments and ultimately help our communities to thrive and sustain themselves.

As an organization, CEDEC finds itself as being primarily a federally funded entity. As a consequence, it is exempt from some of the provincial requirements that exist for organizations like Mr. Humbert's, which may find themselves and their members being primarily provincially funded. In fact, where federal investments are desirable, we find ourselves being ideally suited to act as an intermediary to make sure that resources reach the communities they're intended to reach.

We work very closely with our provincial counterparts. We work very closely with the Réseau des carrefours jeunesse-emploi, as well as other employment service providers, but there are jurisdictional considerations that I think are always at play, and we always have to be attentive to those.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

As we all do around this table. We always have to be very mindful of that.

Do you see direct federal funding as more effective than funding that flows through Quebec in reaching the vulnerable youth—“vulnerable youth” being the core piece of the question?

[John Buck]

In the context of funds flowing, I think all parties have an interest in making sure that those vulnerable youth are served. We work in an official languages context, which adds a layer of complexity to that discussion as well. We find ourselves anchored in the Official Languages Act and in the action plan in terms of our efforts, so it makes sense that, as we try to support the advancement of policy related to official languages, the federal government is a key partner with us in doing that.

Simultaneously, I think all of us have an interest in seeing an economy that thrives, so working with the Government of Quebec and working with stakeholders from public, private and civil society sectors really means that we all win. We all thrive when that happens.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Mrs. Gill, you have six minutes.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank all the witnesses for their interest in youth unemployment. I listened carefully to each of the speeches today. I took good note of them.

I have some questions for the representatives from the Fédération des chambres de commerce du Québec.

Mr. Pageau, I want to talk numbers. If I am not mistaken—I do not want to put words in your mouth—you said that at present, the issue of youth unemployment in Quebec is significant, but not alarming.

Did I understand that correctly?

[Stéphane Pageau]

That is correct. Obviously, unemployment is a significant and alarming reality for people who experience it personally. However, across Quebec, the current rate is within the average range for the past 25 years.

For example, the unemployment rate in Quebec is not much higher than the recorded rate in the majority of OECD countries. In Quebec, if we compare the general unemployment rate of 6% to that of persons aged 15 to 25, it is roughly double. However, in the majority of other OECD countries, there is twice to three times as much youth unemployment as general unemployment.

So there really is something we are doing well in Quebec. That is not to say that we should not continue to implement youth employability assistance programs. There are some excellent programs out there, particularly in terms of training.

That said, when we look at the figures for Quebec, it is not as alarming as all that.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

Thank you very much.

In fact, analysts at the Library of Parliament have done some research for us. We can see that the unemployment rate among young people aged 15 to 24 has declined since 2000 in Quebec. I am not saying that is the case across Canada, since the situation varies greatly from one region to another. Nor am I saying exactly which population either. The same goes for the employment rate, which has increased in Quebec compared to certain other places in Canada.

During your presentation, you said that you did not want to pit youth unemployment against the use of temporary foreign workers. There was a technical problem at one point, and I am not sure if we missed any information. I would like you to elaborate on that.

You also said that there is indeed unemployment and that you would obviously like to see full employment among young people, particularly young men. The unemployment rate among young men is currently higher. You also explained that the issue of unemployment needed to be examined over a longer time frame, namely to 2033, because there will be a shortage of 1.4 million workers to fill positions in Quebec at that time.

I would like your observations on those two issues.

[Stéphane Pageau]

In the public sphere, some have mentioned that the TFWP was, among other things, one of the causes of youth unemployment. This is not what we are seeing in Quebec.

As we have said, the rise in unemployment mainly affects young male students, and they will not be filling the positions targeted by the TFWP. For example, 85% of people in the TFWP have full-time jobs, which is not what students are looking for.

The same applies to the skills required. If we exclude agricultural workers, 60% of people in the TFWP work in jobs requiring a college degree or higher. It is clear to us that there is no cause-and-effect relationship.

That said, there is the whole issue of labour needs. More than 100,000 positions are vacant in Quebec. We need workers. Unfortunately, these workers are not necessarily well distributed in terms of geography or skills. Some regions have an unemployment rate of 3.6%, with the median rate being 4.6%.

This is what we see in the long term. According to calculations made by the FCCQ, Quebec will need 106,000 new immigrant workers in the near future. We are not in a situation where the long-term outlook points to an increase in unemployment. There may be a circumstantial factor at play right now, but in the long term, we will need 1.4 million workers to fill positions. Given Quebec's birth rate, it will not be possible to renew the labour pool.

The message we want to convey is that we need to address the issue of rising unemployment among young men today, particularly students, but a long-term perspective needs to be taken into account at the political level.

Immigration policies must be aligned with labour market needs, particularly in terms of geography, but also in terms of skills.

Currently, the TFWP best promotes the regionalization of immigration and best aligns it with the labour market, despite certain measures taken in Quebec regarding permanent immigration. When compared to federal programs, it is the most useful in meeting the labour needs of businesses in Quebec.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Pageau.

Mr. Humbert, you talked about employment insurance accessibility and the fact that young people are in precarious situations.

We recognize that there is unemployment, but urgent measures need to be taken to protect or support young people.

Do you think that the government should reform employment insurance to take these needs into account?

[Rudy Humbert]

Yes, I completely agree.

The social safety net has holes in it. Roughly one third of unemployed workers have access to employment insurance. Positions are increasingly atypical, young people hold down multiple jobs, a new economy has formed, the number of hours of eligibility is difficult to achieve, and the unemployment rate in the regions are different.

We have to take into consideration these new realities and this immense precariousness that is hitting young people. Often, as a result, young people are not eligible for employment insurance. They need this social safety net to cover their basic needs.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Madame Gill.

Welcome, Madame Cobena. I believe you're up next, with five minutes.

[Sandra Cobena, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Mr. Rizzo, you spoke about how Canada needs to get serious about creating jobs, creating jobs and creating jobs. You have a unique perspective, in that you have about 38 years of experience creating businesses and jobs, and opening businesses in Canada, the U.S. and Mexico.

Can you speak about how Canada compares to these other two countries in terms of the ease of opening a business?

[Perry Rizzo]

Simply put, we don't compete.

Ohio did an economic development plan for one of our divisions. It had it tabled, papered, authored and approved in less than six months.

In Mexico, we opened greenfield sites. We had economic development teams meet with us on a Tuesday, and by the following Thursday, before we were leaving, they had a whole proposal in front of us. We flew down the following week. They tabled more than $2.8 million in investment money to lure us to their specific state. They asked us to come down the following week. We told them we had some additional issues. Those issues were solved within one business day. We signed and penned a deal, and built two facilities in Mexico, all within six months. We were operational within 18 months.

That just doesn't happen in Canada, not even remotely. We can't even get funding for development projects in Canada. By the time we fill out and try to address any strategy in Canada, you're talking about a lengthy, cumbersome, red-taped and administratively heavy process. By the time it's done, there's no money left for the entrepreneur or the actual core value of what was intended.

[Sandra Cobena, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

As a business owner, it's not just difficult for you to open a business. When you finally open a business here in Canada, you're taxed when you earn, when you hire, when you grow and then, of course, again if you sell—through the capital gains tax.

Would you say, then, that success in Canada is, in fact, punished?

[Perry Rizzo]

Absolutely. We talk about that and you can see that in the productivity numbers. There are compelling documents and reports. One is through the National Bank of Canada economic strategy and data reports. The title is “The industrial implosion”, and it clearly identifies investments, capital and growth in the United States versus Canada. I'll just hold it up quickly, but I'm sure it can be supplied. On this chart, the blue line represents the United States and its investment strategy on equipment and capital. You can see the red line for Canada over the last 10 or 15 years.

When I spoke earlier, a question was asked about high input costs, which means wages. With respect to the immigration policy issue, I'll say that we tried to hire some engineers and program managers during growth in Canada, and all of them coming into our facility wanted $80,000 to $100,000 to start. They referenced the high living expenses in Toronto, for instance. From car insurance costs to rental costs and living costs, we hear every reason why, as an owner and an entrepreneur, I need to be burdened with all these costs in order to compete. You're competing against companies in Georgia that are paying $16 to $17 for general labour and are paying their program management and engineering teams an average wage of $70,000 to $80,000 U.S. Compare that to Mexico at $65,000 U.S., and then you're looking at people in Canada wanting $130,000. This makes us completely uncompetitive.

[Sandra Cobena, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Rizzo.

The Liberal government ran on a platform of making decisions and changes at a speed not seen in generations. Since the Liberal government was elected, which was six months ago—half a year has now passed and gone—have you seen any changes that have made it easier for you to create jobs?

[Perry Rizzo]

Absolutely not. I'm amazed, with the state that Canada is in, given the economic pressures, that we haven't taken immediate action to create very significant action plans to start addressing all of these concerns. I have seen little to no action to address any of these concerns. It's mind-blowing and mind-boggling to me that this isn't being addressed on so many fronts.

We should be exploiting our natural resources. We should be building pipelines. We should be creating internal growth in Canada and creating jobs in Canada. There should be a buy Canadian product and manufacturing investment strategy. I haven't seen anything tangible, including military spending. I haven't seen one form or procurement model that says we're going to revamp that and we're going to meet with—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Rizzo and Ms. Cobena.

Madame Desrochers, you have five minutes.

[Caroline Desrochers, Liberal, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Obviously the youth unemployment rate is worrisome. My colleagues and I all agreed on that this summer. However it is a real problem and it is a shame that a committee meeting is being used today to share questionable, if not false messages.

Contrary to what my colleague was saying, we were not on vacation this summer. We all went to our ridings. I met with people from dozens of companies and the youth employment centre in my riding. I met with entrepreneurs to understand what they are going through, and what they brought up is very much in line with what the witnesses said. Indeed, this is about the mismatch between the skills acquired by our young people at the end of their studies, whether in high school or college, and the needs of our businesses.

I will come back to this, because I would really like us to use the time we have today to find real solutions to a real problem. I will also come back to the temporary foreign worker program, which some of you have mentioned.

That said, I would like to remind everyone that in 2021 and 2022, there were significant labour shortages. Some businesses had to close their doors because there were no workers, young or old. We must keep this in mind. The programs that are in place today were designed precisely to address this problem.

Like our government, we felt that what was put in place a few years ago may no longer meet current needs. That is why we are holding this meeting today and conducting this type of committee study; to find the right solutions to the problems.

I would like to correct a comment made by a witness regarding government investment in the manufacturing sector. The government invests hundreds of millions of dollars, if not more, in the manufacturing sector every year in Canada, whether in Alberta, British Columbia, Northern Ontario, Quebec, or Northern Quebec. I have attended the announcement of many of these investments, which help our small and medium-sized businesses purchase equipment, launch new product lines, and be more productive.

I would also like to thank my colleague Ms. Cobena, who spoke about the commitments we made during the election campaign. We are fulfilling those commitments. First, we established the strategic response fund to defend our businesses during the current trade war. Next, we launched Build Canada Homes to build more housing using Canadian workers, Canadian lumber, and Canadian materials. This morning, we also launched the Defense Investment Agency.

Mr. Rizzo, you may have missed the announcement we made two weeks ago regarding the “Buy Canadian” procurement policy. Our goal is to encourage companies to buy Canadian across all value chains, because we are well aware of what is happening and we are consistent in our approach.

That said, Mr. Gagnon, I would like to discuss with you the issue of first jobs, which several of my colleagues have also raised. We obviously have some very useful government programs, such as co-op programs, student internships, and so on.

In your opinion, how should we go about creating more entry-level job opportunities in the manufacturing sector?

What could we do to encourage that?

[Alexandre Gagnon]

Thank you for the question. It's an important one.

This is something done well in Quebec and not quite as well in other parts of Canada. I'm thinking of work‑study programs, co‑operative programs and work placements.

Many initiatives have been implemented over the years by governments of all stripes. One example is the student work placement program, which has been brought up many times. SMEs receive assistance with taking on interns, who are often a source of innovation and productivity growth for small businesses. This program has been a great key to success over the years.

As you said, we hear a great deal about the issues surrounding our young people's skills—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Madame Desrochers. Your time has gone over.

Mrs. Gill, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for Mr. Gagnon and Mr. Pageau from the Fédération des chambres de commerce du Québec.

Once again, I want to talk about the future. You said that challenges would arise when it comes to filling vacant positions. A few of them have just been identified. I would like you to elaborate on the challenges, particularly with regard to youth employment.

You represent 45,000 members. You're no stranger to the scene. Without getting into the realm of science fiction, what challenges do you see ahead and what recommendations should we make to ensure that vacant positions are filled by young people?