Citizenship and Immigration Committee on May 10th, 2006

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

I appreciate your position on this, but the short answer is no. That's not anything at all that we're considering.

With respect to whether they fit the definition of a refugee, we'll leave it to the IRB to make those judgments, but frankly, at this point I haven't considered the issue of whether or not we intervene. Let me be very clear: I certainly have no interest in opening up a path or a category for American war resisters to enter Canada in any way.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

We're over six minutes here now, so I will go to Rahim, and then over to Blair.

[Rahim Jaffer, Conservative, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I wanted to follow up, Minister, on a question that Bill had asked on the settlement funding. The $307 million, I think, will go a long way, as you say, because it seemed that a lot of groups were really stretched when it came to providing settlement services. One thing I've learned from being on this committee is that many volunteer organizations, cultural organizations, and others help with various settlement services, whether it's refugees or new immigrants coming into the country. I was wondering if you could explain if the money that's going to be transferred is going to be transferred directly to the provinces to deal with the services, or is there going to be some sort of effort to engage some of these other groups that provide excellent services but often don't have the resources to do what they're doing? Is there any way we can engage provincial governments to utilize these groups more effectively in providing services, and maybe even potentially get them money? What ideas do you have about trying to support the work of their groups?

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

There are different situations for each province, basically. In Ontario's case, we're actually spending the money in Ontario for the benefit of Ontarians, with input from the provincial government. Obviously, we'll be talking--and I've already been talking--with settlement agencies in Ontario about this.

In other provinces--where the past is different, where there's a different historical situation--there are different ways of delivering the money. It's different from province to province, but I have talked to a number of settlement agencies already in anticipation of this announcement. When we have any say in it, we're taking their views into account.

Generally one of the most important things almost every one of them emphasized is the need for improved language training--for English language training outside Quebec, and for French language training in Quebec and in francophone communities. You hear that everywhere you go, and I think a lot of that money will end up providing those services.

[Rahim Jaffer, Conservative, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

That's great. That's one thing I would encourage you in. I'm glad you're already paying attention to it, because I was really impressed.

In Edmonton, for instance, there's the Mennonite Centre for Newcomers, and there are other refugee organizations, and ones that provide some excellent services but often are strapped because they're doing it out of a volunteer base, or whatever it might be. I think anything that can help to direct that would be a very effective use of time and resources.

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

If I can just say a word, the Mennonite Centre is pretty famous for how good they are. I have yet to get up there to meet them, but the next time I go to Edmonton we'll go together.

I was in Calgary not long ago and saw the Calgary Catholic Immigration Society and what they do. It's wonderful, because it's not just a case of people who are providing services because it's their job: they had, I think, 800 volunteers involved. People are passionate about wanting to help other people, and it was very inspiring and obviously very effective. It's one of the high points of my job to be able to see people that committed to helping other people.

[Rahim Jaffer, Conservative, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

The invitation is open. I'm sure they will be thrilled to have you come—there's no doubt—so hopefully we can arrange it.

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

I'd love to do it.

[Rahim Jaffer, Conservative, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I have one follow-up question on the temporary foreign worker program. I understand that in 2005, 45% of the temporary foreign worker applications were finalized in about seven days or less, and I think 75% within 28 days. I'm curious; that leaves 25%. What is going to be done to speed up that process, which I would say is unacceptable? What sort of ideas do you have to speed that process up?

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

There are two aspects to this. Part of it is that there are people who make it past the first hurdle, in the sense that when employers are looking for workers they start with the labour market opinion. Sometimes that can take quite a while because they have to advertise across the country. Then when they finally get through that process, they get to the CIC side, and generally things tend to move quite quickly.

But there are problems in some cases. I suspect those have to do, probably, with health and security issues generally, because that's generally where there have to be fairly detailed checks done of individuals to make sure the security of Canadians is put first.

That, I expect, is where the problem typically lies, but I stand to be corrected.

[A voice]

That's correct.

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

That's correct, I'm told.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you, Rahim.

We'll go to Blair.

[Blair Wilson, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Minister, for coming and joining us here.

Before I get into the questions, I just wanted to do a short brief to let you know that the riding I represent, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, is the largest riding by population in Canada. We've got a dramatically growing population—a lot of it due to the immigration policy we've enjoyed in Canada—and we've got a lot of people moving to British Columbia and into my riding. I also act as the associate critic for finance and the chair of the B.C. caucus, so there are quite a number of people I have to represent and communicate with.

I just wanted to start off by saying that I'm disappointed, frankly, in your presentation, Mr. Minister. It's eight pages of double-spaced type when you've been in the job for a hundred days now, or three months. Maybe it's my fault, but I was expecting more of a quarterly report and an update as to what your department has been doing for the past three months and, more importantly, what your plan is, what your mission statement is, or what your vision is for the future.

Canada is the greatest country on this planet because of our immigration policy, and this committee that we all sit proudly on is critically important to the success and the future of Canadians. When we're talking about this file, it's not as if we're in the Department of Finance, where we're talking about numbers. These are real people, these are real families, the real future of Canada, for whom we all need to work together to represent and take forward. I don't see anything in this documentation that provides us with any vision or any plan for the future.

Right now in Canada we're sitting on what I call the ticking time bomb, where we've got a dramatic bulk of people in the baby boomer age group who are set to retire and, at the same time, we need more people coming into Canada to balance that out and to be able to support those people who will soon be into retirement, and who reduce the workforce as a result. So that's the one ticking time bomb we all have to deal with.

If you combine that with western Canada and the growth rate that we are seeing in British Columbia and Alberta, and the need for workers.... We need all levels of workers. We need people in the subtrades, as was mentioned earlier, and we need people in the health care industry. There's an incredible demand in western Canada for workers, and at the same time, Canada as a whole is at a thirty-year low in unemployment.

So you combine those two situations, those two facts, with what you have outlined in your report here, that we have 800,000 people backlogged in our system, and it just makes me shake my head to say the solution is sitting here right in front of us. Normally we're trying to figure out the equilibrium between demand and supply. Well, right now we have an enormous demand in Canada for workers and you have an enormous supply of workers to get into the pipeline.

So my humble question to you is, what's your game plan or strategy to get these 800,000 people off our backlog and get these 800,000 people into Canada, and when will you achieve it?

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Thanks for the question.

I guess it goes without saying that I reject the premise of your long preamble, which is that we don't have a plan. We've actually started to implement a plan, and if you look in that document, you'll see a few things that we've achieved.

If I can say this, I think that one thing people are tired of is a lot of talk. I think they want some things done. We've done some things early on, and we want to do more. But it's also true that these are very difficult issues and I would love to have some input, which is what I've asked you for in that double-spaced document I've given you—which, by the way, allows you a bit more time to ask questions and to provide some solutions yourself.

So what I'd truly like is some input. I mentioned the issue of the backlog of 800,000 people and the issue or problem of having 250,000 or 260,000 people coming to Canada every year, but 300,000 people more applying, so the list gets longer. So what do we do to ensure that the list doesn't get longer and that people can be processed in a normal or decent amount of time?

So part of the process here is not just for me to come with a grand vision. If people want some things done, I'd like your input, and feel free to fire away.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Five minutes go by so quickly, or five and a half, actually.

I'll move over to Barry.

[Barry Devolin, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Thank you.

I can't help but note the irony of Liberal members pointing out that previous ministers promised so much yet delivered so little. This system you're managing is months or years long. It certainly isn't something that developed in the last hundred days.

In terms of the provincial nominee program, you said that every province has a program except Ontario. As an MP from Ontario, I wonder why.

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

It's important to be very fair here. Obviously CIC has a long history of providing immigration services, where the federal government has been more expert at this than anybody. Quebec got involved in 1991. The provincial nominee program has spread across the country, but Ontario reasoned--for a long time, understandably--that they get the majority of the immigrants, so they really didn't need to have a provincial nominee program.

But the provincial nominee program isn't just about bringing people into the province, although that's valuable in some provinces where they have declining birth rates and people are leaving the province. The program is also about selecting the people you want to go to particular communities where you're looking for a doctor, for instance, or whatever the case may be.

I have talked to the provincial minister in Ontario a number of times, in fact more than anybody else. I think we have a pretty good relationship. We've talked about the provincial nominee program. They're committed to a pilot project. We're very prepared to help them make that as successful as we can.

[Barry Devolin, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

In a previous life, I was involved with the smart growth initiative in Ontario. It was a provincial initiative to travel the province to learn about growth issues. The simple conclusion was that there was too much growth in some areas, which created problems, and not enough growth or even negative growth in other parts of the province, which created other problems.

Ontario's a big place. If you live in Kenora, you're closer to Calgary than you are to Toronto. We heard from communities in northern Ontario that we need immigration, we need to have proactive immigration. These are communities filled with Polish Canadians and Italian Canadians and Ukrainians and Finns and many other people who came here as recently as the fifties, sixties, and seventies. They're saying, we're pro-immigration, we want immigrants, we want people who'll come and stay in our communities.

Is that the type of thing a provincial nomination program could address?

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Absolutely. In Manitoba they've been very successful, in the German Mennonite community and also in the Filipino community, in bringing people in from those two countries into existing German Mennonite and Filipino communities in Manitoba, which makes it easier for them to integrate and to be successful. I think there is real potential in that program for Ontario, but that's completely up to Ontario to drive.

I would note, as a former finance critic for the Conservative Party, that I remember meeting with the mining association. They told me that they simply couldn't find miners. That's one example of an industry in Ontario that would benefit if the program were more aggressively used.

[Barry Devolin, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

One and a half minutes remain, if you want to use them.

Mr. Jaffer.

[Rahim Jaffer, Conservative, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I'd like to follow up on a point that Bill had made. You mentioned the target of 1%. From my experience, it's nowhere, really, why that 1% came around, or if it's in fact a goal that the immigration department set. I think it was just somehow established at 1% and was just accepted.

Can you tell me how, in your experience so far, that 1% is set? Have there been any studies to look at what we should be looking at as a target for immigration, whether it should be, for instance, 1% higher? Hopefully it's higher, not lower.

I'm just curious to know what your thoughts are on that, because I never understood where that came from.

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

What it is, I think, is a nice round number. If all of a sudden tomorrow we went to 1%, clearly it would be difficult for particular provinces to deal with the influx of people. The infrastructure, the settlement moneys--all of that would have to be there.

We want to be a bit more methodical about this than just choosing a round number and going for it. I think the real issue is what is in the long-term economic interests of the country, being mindful of what I said earlier about the contribution that people in all classes make to the country. That's what we should be basing this on, not just picking a nice round number.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

We'll go to the Bloc.

Meili.