Evidence of meeting #50 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 39th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was board.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
former Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, As an Individual
I'm not trying to go around—
Liberal
Omar Alghabra Liberal Mississauga—Erindale, ON
Did it have anything to do with the timing of that report?
former Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, As an Individual
Well, partly, in the sense that when the minister said she agreed with everything that was in the Harrison report and they were going in that direction, I couldn't see myself being the one implementing that, in fairness to the government.
former Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, As an Individual
Well, we talked about it.
Liberal
Omar Alghabra Liberal Mississauga—Erindale, ON
So when I asked you a question, you felt that this new merger of the advisory panels increased the politicization of the—
former Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, As an Individual
I've said what I had to say on that. But let me just point out that it's a combination of factors. It wasn't only Mr. Harrison's report; it's a combination of factors.
On March 16, I still did not have the appointments I needed, and this had been going on for some time. What more could I do? Then the government decided...and I respect what they're doing, and it is not for me to criticize the decision they're taking. For me, the best way is to have a new chair appointed by the government who can give what the government wants in terms of our board.
Liberal
Omar Alghabra Liberal Mississauga—Erindale, ON
Congratulations on great integrity and great service to Canada.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle
You have an impeccable sense of timing, Mr. Alghabra.
Who do we have next? Mr. Komarnicki.
Conservative
Ed Komarnicki Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK
Absolutely, as we close here, I congratulate you on your many years of service, for sure, and I realize you've done an admirable job.
I know that your position has been replaced by Mr. Goodman, with whom you probably are familiar. He's an excellent choice. You worked with him for a number of years.
Could you tell us a little bit about him?
former Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, As an Individual
Under Minister Solberg I conducted a competition for vice-president, and Mr. Goodman was the successful candidate as vice-president. He's an outstanding individual. He had been in tribunal work, public service in Ontario work, and he was doing extremely well. So in terms of the interim, I recommended to the minister that Mr. Goodman was the right choice, and the minister agreed.
Conservative
former Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, As an Individual
I have a good comfort level. Very much.
By the way, I saw my doctor this morning ,and my high blood pressure is lower than it was two years ago.
Conservative
Ed Komarnicki Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK
That's probably not a bad assessment of things, for sure.
I see that also Ken Sandhu has joined the executive team as deputy chairperson.
former Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, As an Individual
Yes. There again, Mr. Sandhu was chosen through a selection process conducted by the minister, Privy Council Office, and PMO. I was on that board.
You're mentioning something, and I'm glad I never made the distinction. I have no problem, for my selection and the selection of the vice-president, that the minister's office and the Prime Minister's Office are the ones on the board; I don't call that politicizing. When I talk about politicizing, I am talking about the level of the decision-makers. I am not talking about the levels of management. I think the government should have a say, and they have.
Conservative
Ed Komarnicki Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK
In fact, you were appointed by the previous government. Wouldn't that be correct?
former Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, As an Individual
Yes, I was.
Conservative
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Mr. Fleury, every day when somebody wakes up and goes to work, they either look forward to going to work and they're happy about it or they go to work grudgingly because they have to pay a mortgage and they have to feed the family. I don't think in your case, sir, it was the second. I think every morning when you got up to go to work you were happy about what you were doing; you were proud of what you were doing. Certainly we can see in this committee, from your testimony today, that you had a very successful 42 years, and you certainly made a lot of contributions to this country.
From that, if I were to come to the conclusion that during the last nine months, as you said, you didn't have any added value, I would say that probably you were not happy about going to work and you decided you were going to pack it in. Your blood pressure is lower now. I would come to the conclusion that although you were trying to make a difference, and as a 42-year public servant you had a lot of know-how—The list of people praising you, even in this committee and everybody around this table, certainly is impeccable. But I would come to the conclusion, sir, that you were at loggerheads with the minister, and certainly the minister was not listening to you, and one morning you woke up and said, screw it, I'm gone.
I would say that on the other side the minister was probably even happier to get rid of you, because you were pointing in the right direction and giving advice to the minister that the minister needed to take, and that this government is certainly not willing to go in that direction. This is why we are in the quandary that we are in today, and this is why you probably said, enough is enough and I'm leaving.
How close am I, sir?
former Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, As an Individual
It wasn't like that.
former Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, As an Individual
As I said, there were family considerations. After 42 years in the federal government I wanted to do something different. I wanted to take four or five months off and then start my own company. I don't know what I'm going to do in September. I certainly won't stop working, by the way. The word “retirement” is not the right word.
I think it was just the timing. The time was good to have a new leader in the institution. I think you'll see appointments coming better now. That's my prediction.
Liberal