Evidence of meeting #50 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 39th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was board.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Bloc
Meili Faille Bloc Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
You subsequently pointed out that positions had become vacant over the months.
I think that, when you appeared before the committee, you told us that you were short approximately 40 members. At that time, you were sure that the minister had enough candidates in hand to fill those positions. I also think you mentioned that the problem was that appointments had to continue.
former Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, As an Individual
I want to qualify your question. There were five vacant positions for new appointments. However, the government in power also had a file containing some 20 renewals, because it should not be forgotten that renewals also create vacant positions if they are not filled. So you have to be careful.
Bloc
Meili Faille Bloc Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
When you appeared before the committee, the minister's office had in hand the names of candidates that it could have appointed. Is that correct?
former Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, As an Individual
Yes.
Bloc
Meili Faille Bloc Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
Yes, all right.
I don't have any more questions, Mr. Chairman.
NDP
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
Thank you, Chair.
Mr. Fleury, just to pick up on something else that Mr. Telegdi had mentioned, he said that there had been some progress on reducing the backlog. I think it was down to around 20,000 files. Do you know what it was when you did leave? Had it risen again from that 20,000 that you last reported to the committee? And where was it at the time of your departure?
former Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, As an Individual
I stand corrected there, but I think we were climbing to 26,000, and going at a rate of a possible 1,000 a month on the refugee side. On the appeals side it's different.
NDP
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
Okay. Can you tell me what level of backlog you'd find acceptable in the workings of the board?
former Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, As an Individual
None.
former Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, As an Individual
No, no, you can't—Let me paraphrase this so that we have a benchmark for when I use the word “backlog”.
The ideal on the refugee side is to have a decision rendered in six months. To do that, if I have all the members in place, in six months, the cases in waiting—they wouldn't be called a backlog—would need to be at 16,000.
NDP
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
So 16,000 is a target for what you believe is the effective functioning of the board. And we're seeing that disappearing over the horizon, at this point, given the number of vacancies.
former Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, As an Individual
Yes, but in the four years I was in the position, we never reached it.
NDP
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
I understand that—but we were getting there.
All I want to say, Mr. Fleury, is thank you for your long service as a public servant in Canada. I want to add my voice to those of others who've expressed that this morning.
former Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, As an Individual
Thank you very much.
Conservative
Nina Grewal Conservative Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Mr. Fleury, I would like to congratulate you on your retirement after nearly 42 years of public service. I appreciate your desire to spend some more time with your family and to pursue new endeavours.
When you announced your retirement, you wrote a letter to Minister Finley that is now publicly available on the IRB website. In your letter you state that the Immigration and Refugee Board's current structure is dated and lacks sufficient clarity with regard to accountability. Can you please tell the committee what you meant when you said the structure was dated and lacked sufficient clarity?
former Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, As an Individual
Yes. I think there are two factors.
The board was structured the way it was for 15 years, and having worked with it, I had come to the conclusion that we did not need the position of executive director; we definitely needed to change the accountability in the chair's office and clarify the roles and responsibilities. That's one.
The second factor in terms of governance is that with the new Accountability Act, with the responsibilities of deputy head and accountability, and the fact that you have to account to this committee—and I do account to the committee, by the way—you need to make sure that you understand your mandate and that it is clear. It's also important, in the initial stages of an appointment, for the minister to give general direction in terms of where the board is going.
Conservative
Conservative
Ed Komarnicki Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK
I'll just continue from where she left off. I want to get some of your thoughts on other aspects of the report that we haven't touched upon and see if you're in agreement.
One of the recommendations was a recruitment campaign on a frequency basis to ensure an ongoing pool of candidates. Do you agree there should be an ongoing recruitment campaign, and would you agree it should be with the widest possible publication on a national basis, so that we could get a good number of candidates applying for the position?
former Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, As an Individual
I agree with you.
Conservative
Ed Komarnicki Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK
Okay.
We've talked about setting and applying the pass mark, and that was fine. He talked about keeping potential candidates informed of the situation and giving them ample notice in advance of the expiry of a current member's term. Are you in agreement with that part of the report?
former Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, As an Individual
I am, very much.
Conservative
Ed Komarnicki Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK
Making the initial appointments for three years as opposed to the current two years—would that be helpful in the process in terms of reducing the backlog?
