Citizenship and Immigration Committee on May 2nd, 2007

[Clark Goodman]

I can appreciate the fact that someone walking into an office doesn't want to be told flat out one way or another what the decision could be on the case. And to that end, I have instructed local offices to be sensitive to people coming in and asking questions. I think part of our response to that in fact is creating the dedicated line in the call centre to respond to these questions. So when someone calls in and has questions, if the person can't be dealt with by the special unit within the call centre, someone from the CPC will follow up and call back within a couple of days.

I would agree that having someone just walk into an office and present documents and expect a decision might not be the best way to go because of the sensitivities around the case.

[Barry Devolin, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Actually, I appreciate what you're saying, but I was saying something slightly different, which is that even when a determination has been made that there is a problem with a person's citizenship, there ought to be a protocol for how that is communicated to the person, recognizing that it will be a surprise and will be a traumatic piece of news for them to receive.

You mentioned the 800 number. One of the things we heard—and quite frankly this is a pet peeve of mine with all kinds of organizations—is that they publish an 800 number that you can only call from certain area codes, and you can't call that number from other places. So is there another number published? Is there a 613 number, or—I don't know what the area code in Sydney?

But we heard that. People said they'd try to call from the United States, they'd try to call some 800 number that is only available in Canada, and they couldn't even get through. Has that been addressed?

[Clark Goodman]

You are correct that the 1-800 number is for people living in Canada. For people living outside of Canada, the two main avenues open to them are our missions around the globe and of course our website, for information.

[Barry Devolin, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Might I just suggest that you attach another non-800 number to that? If someone lives in California and they want to call, they might be glad to pay the 25¢ for a long-distance call to a 613 number, if they can't get through on the 800 number, or 902, or whatever it is.

My final point is one that Mr. Telegdi made, and I can appreciate this. For someone who is not sure about this, do they ask the question and maybe get the wrong answer, or do they just ignore it and hope it goes away or hope nobody ever finds out that they're not a citizen?

In terms of the advertising campaign you're putting out, you're going to identify which groups of people could potentially fall into this category and encourage people. Have you thought this one through--that, quite frankly, there are a lot of people out there who don't trust the government, either its intentions in the broadest sense or its competence in dealing with these things, so they just stay away from it? How are you going to deal with that? How are you going to encourage people who are reluctant to come forward?

[Clark Goodman]

Again, as part of our promotional campaign, we'll encourage people to want to regularize their status. I cannot argue with you saying that some people may be hesitant to come forward because they don't like the outcome; however, by not dealing with it now and finding out what they need to find out now, that may affect them down the road.

[Barry Devolin, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Your answer is rationally correct.

I'm a procrastinator. I have great empathy for people who say, “You know what? I'll let sleeping dogs lie, because the cost of the wrong answer is so high.” So I think you need to encourage those people to come forward in such a way that we're not going to drop them on their head if they get the wrong answer, and to maybe communicate some of the challenges they may face down the road if they don't clarify this at this point.

[Mark Davidson]

Mr. Chair, just briefly—

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Yes, Mr. Davidson.

[Mark Davidson]

We certainly have heard the testimony or were reading the testimony of witnesses here at the committee, so we're conscious that this communication issue is a problem for us. We're going to try to be sensitive to that and encourage as many people as possible to come forward, while at the same time passing along those messages that the minister passed along, that it's a good step to come forward, that we've made a commitment about ensuring that, working with the CBSA, no one's status will be subject while they're under review.

We're conscious that there is a communication challenge. The other part of that communication challenge is that in some of our messages to individuals, we're not saying they're not a citizen, we're saying they do not have the documentation that's required to prove they are a citizen.

When the minister was here, she used the example of someone who has lost the employee card from their employer. She said just because someone has lost their proof of employment, that doesn't mean they're not an employee of that company. So that's part of our communications challenge.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you.

That completes our seven-minute rounds. We will go to five-minute rounds now, and I would ask individuals, if you haven't spoken, to put up your hand if you wish to get on the list, because we don't have a lengthy list here.

We'll go to Mr. Karygiannis in a five-minute round.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Would you be willing to share with this committee your promotional material or the promotional campaign that you're going to put forward, before you engage in it?

[Clark Goodman]

I would like to discuss that with the minister first, before responding.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

I'm aware that 8% of the Canadian government's advertising last year was used for multicultural papers, and that 8% represents $1.9 million. A lot of it was going through your department, so I would like this committee to have an opportunity to see what kind of promotional material you will be putting out and who you will be engaging. The deputy minister said that you had engaged, but certainly that's not the case.

I have another question for you. In order for somebody to become a citizen, they have to go through background checks. Can you tell us the three departments that are involved in that?

[Rosemarie Redden]

Normally, the three departments would be our department--to check with Immigration, to ensure that they're landed or permanent residents. In this case, we know that they're not permanent—

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

You're talking RCMP, CSIS, and your integrity unit—right?

[Rosemarie Redden]

It would be Immigration, normally, RCMP and CSIS—exactly.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

How long does it take for RCMP to clear fingerprints?

[Rosemarie Redden]

It depends on the case. We've had some back within a week, and the police have taken—

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Sorry—you had some back within a week?

[Rosemarie Redden]

Yes.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Again, I caution you that you're giving testimony to this committee. Again, what is the average, and what's the RCMP response time every time that something is sent in? Is it a week, two weeks, three weeks, or eight months?

[Rosemarie Redden]

Are you talking about a regular grant process? Because we are getting expedited—

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Are you telling me today that you have made arrangements with the RCMP and CSIS to fast-track lost Canadians?

[Rosemarie Redden]

The CSIS things are going as per usual, and it doesn't normally take very long. With the RCMP, too, if there's no problem, the information goes—

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Sorry, my question is have you made provisions with RCMP and CSIS to fast-track lost Canadians? Yes or no?