Citizenship and Immigration Committee on May 29th, 2007

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Through certain anomalies, yes. For example, anyone after February of 1977 who might have lost their citizenship through failure to retain it, through that provision, could have it restored.

I'd like to stress again that no one who is currently a Canadian citizen will lose it. So there would be a transition provision. For example, for those second generations born outside of Canada right now, they would not lose their citizenship.

Let's also recognize that we are making the process as simple as possible. We're trying to make it simple to understand and simple to implement. But we would still need proof that these individuals are eligible to be Canadian citizens. We're not going to accept them in just because they say “Hi, I'm Canadian”, or that sort of thing. We do need proof. We're duty-bound to insist that they provide that kind of proof. But our objective is to make this simple, transparent, consistent, and sustainable.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you.

That concludes our seven-minute round. We'll now go to our five-minute round.

Mr. Karygiannis.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Minister, you said that citizenship is a privilege and comes with responsibilities. I put it to you that being a minister also has privileges and comes with responsibilities to know the file. When you were here last time, I questioned you on whether you'd advertised. You turned to your deputy, the deputy turned around and spoke to somebody else from the department, and you insisted that you had advertised. And this is not an excuse like “I was new, ten days”; your deputy turned around and consulted with other people that you had from the department.

You also stated that in the absence of a report, you're bringing this forward. Minister, we're working on a report. Unfortunately, you're bringing this forward because you want to please the media here today and because you don't want to come here and face the music on the mistakes you've made. This is what you're doing.

Minister, you also state this in the recommendations:

Fourth, anyone born to a Canadian Citizen abroad—mother or father, in or out-of-wedlock—on or after January 1, 1947, is a Canadian citizen and will have their citizenship confirmed if they are the first generation born abroad. But no further.

Does that mean, Minister, that somebody born abroad, second generation, is not going to be a Canadian? Is that what you're stating?

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

We're saying that, going forward, there will be no—The existing provision for second generation born abroad, being a citizen until age 28, or having the option to retain the citizenship by age 28, we would discontinue. However, there will be a provision, I'm proposing, to allow anyone who is currently in the system to go through that process.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Minister, let me give you an example. A child is born abroad. The child is 25 or 26. The child lives in Canada, gets married, goes to work abroad, and has a child. From now on, will that new child, born to a parent who was already born outside of Canada, be a Canadian citizen? Yes or no?

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Now, is the new parent first generation or second generation born abroad?

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

First generation born abroad.

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Then the second generation would not automatically be granted citizenship unless they were born in Canada.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Minister, let me show you the picture I am holding in my hands. These are my five daughters. One of them was born abroad; it took your officials five months to confirm whether or not she was a citizen.

What you're telling me is that if my daughter works abroad and has a child, that child cannot be a Canadian citizen. That's what you're telling me. You're going back to your Reform roots of picking and choosing, Minister. Your statement says, Minister, that if my grandchild is born abroad, my grandchild cannot be a Canadian citizen.

How dare you? How dare you tell my daughter, born abroad but in this country since she was two months old, that her children cannot be Canadian citizens? How dare you, Minister? How dare you say this and then go home tonight, face the mirror, and say, “I'm okay, I've got no problem”?

Minister, you come with privileges and responsibilities, and unfortunately your responsibility to Canadians is failing. When are you going to hand in your resignation, Minister? Do it, and do it now.

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

If I might comment, going back to your original statement, you as a committee have been asking that action be taken on this. We've waited for action on this for many years. This is not a new problem. Anomalies have existed for many years.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Minister, I'm going to go back to my grandchild. This is what you're stating in this report.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Order, please.

Mr. Karygiannis, when I bang the gavel I want to bring the committee to order. The minister was in the middle of an answer. I believe she was ten seconds into it. I have to allow the minister some time to answer your questions.

Minister, please answer the question.

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The citizenship anomalies have existed for many years, and this committee and preceding committees have tried to deal with it. Preceding governments have failed to deal with it. We are proposing to take action. I've asked for recommendations from the committee. So far I haven't received any. That's not a comment in any direction, it's merely a statement of fact that I don't think the committee could deny.

I'd like to see action taken. These are the proposals I'm making. I have said already that I am open to suggestions for improvements. I'm quite open to suggestions for improvements, and if they're forthcoming in time for the legislation I'd be happy to consider them.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Minister, what you're doing is what your predecessor did. After Lebanon you said we're going to start looking at dual citizenship. You are providing your Reform base, your hard-core Reform base, a means of applauding for you, because according to you, you can only be a citizen of one country and individuals who are citizens of two countries are not welcome.

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

This has nothing to do with dual citizenship, nothing whatsoever.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Minister, this is what you said as an example.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

I have to cut it off there. We've gone over by about 45 seconds. We'll have a brief response from the minister.

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Thank you. This issue has nothing to do with dual citizenship whatsoever. We are not legislating for or against it. We're not saying people can or cannot have it. All we're talking about is looking at what it takes to have and to acquire Canadian citizenship.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Minister, why don't you hand in your resignation?

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Order, please.

Ms. Grewal.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for appearing, Madam Minister.

Throughout the committee's study on this topic we have heard many different types of cases before us: border babies and war brides and their children; people who lost their citizenship because their parents renounced it; the Mennonites; children of Canadian Forces members. That's just to name a few. So could you please inform this committee how your proposals will affect some of these groups?

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Sorry, I missed part of the question there.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Could you please inform this committee how your proposals will affect some of these groups?

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

For example, there are some individuals referred to as “border babies” who were born accidentally. Perhaps they had their documents stamped as Canadian citizens when they came back to Canada. They would be covered by this.

There are individuals who may have been inadvertently considered not Canadian even though they were born here—for example, those who went to the U.S. prior to 1977 and took out American citizenship and were forced to relinquish their Canadian citizenship in the process. They could reclaim it.

So there are a number of different ways individuals could be helped in this way.

Remember, in this process it's still continuing the special circumstances and reviews under section 5(4), so we're very aware that each of these cases is different. To lump them all as groups is really unfair to each and every one of them. I know that in all the cases that I've looked at, every single one is a separate and unique set of circumstances.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

You have more time.