Citizenship and Immigration Committee on May 29th, 2007

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Mr. Chair, I'll share my time with Mr. Batters.

[Dave Batters, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

How much time do I have, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

You have approximately three minutes.

[Dave Batters, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

And I'll still get a full allotment of time when my slot comes around. Correct?

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Yes.

[Dave Batters, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First of all, I'd like to thank the minister and her officials very much for appearing here before us. I know, Minister, I've spoken to you personally about this issue. I know that you care about it a great deal and you care about rectifying this issue, this important issue of lost Canadians.

I have to say, the performance we witnessed earlier by Mr. Karygiannis opposite was perhaps worthy of an Oscar nomination. I wonder if he gave the same level of performances in private to previous ministers Volpe and Sgro. As you've alluded to, Minister, these are problems that have gone on for multiple years and have not been addressed, and yet you're stepping forward showing real leadership and addressing some of these important cases in the legislation that you're proposing in the fall.

I'm going to limit this pretty much to a comment, because I have a question that I'd like to ask you in my allotted time. But I know that you care deeply about the cases, some of these people we heard from this morning, some of whom are sitting here in this committee today, of lost Canadians. You and your department are doing everything possible within your power to solve these situations, yet respecting that there is a case before the courts and you're not able to act in that set of circumstances because it is before the courts. But you care deeply about these cases and you want to get them rectified.

Could I have maybe a quick comment on that? And I'll ask you further questions in my next round.

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

I thank you and I'm sure the department thanks you for recognizing the efforts the department has made and our government has made to help as many people determine their status or citizenship status and resolve this as quickly and as fairly as possible. It really has been a very significant effort, and I want to make sure that it gets even better, and that through this proposed legislation we're able to prevent that kind of experience from happening to other people in the future.

[Dave Batters, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

Thank you.

Is that my time, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

You do have 30 or 40 seconds, if you want.

[Dave Batters, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

I think I'll yield my 30 seconds. I'll just continue in the next round, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Okay. We have only about two minutes left, so I guess we could wrap up this section of our committee hearing and go on now to the main estimates.

Do you have any closing comment you want to make, Madam Minister, with regard to this part of our committee hearing on lost citizenship? Do you have any comment you want to make in closing?

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would just like to say that this is a very complex issue. The way the 1947 and 1977 citizenship acts were written has led to a great deal of confusion by an awful lot of people. It's also unfortunate, in that because it's so complex there are situations where people get confused and it can be very scary for them.

We're trying to simplify that, Mr. Chair, and do it as quickly and as fairly as possible, while upholding the dignity and the value of Canadian citizenship.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you.

We will now get into consideration of the main estimates, and we'll go to Mr. Alghabra.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

First, I want to comment on something you said earlier, that this committee had never submitted any recommendations to you on the issue of lost Canadians. It's really disappointing, and that's what feeds a lot of the cynicism.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Can we have some order, please?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

That's really what feeds a lot of the cynicism and the frustration on behalf of this committee, because we've met frequently, including one meeting I recall, for about two hours, with the parliamentary secretary. The critics from all parties here submitted recommendations in writing to the parliamentary secretary. He promised to get back to us with legal opinions from the department on those recommendations.

So I need to correct the record of you stating that the committee had never submitted anything. The fact of the matter is that we did, and it's due to the work of this committee by keeping this issue in the public domain that you are now planning to do something. I'm hopeful. I'm looking forward to seeing those recommendations, but I was hoping that legislation would have been submitted before the frivolous legislation about so-called exotic dancers' work conditions.

I have with me here the platform from 2005-06 by the Conservative Party. Under the immigration section it says:

A Conservative government will: Create a Canadian Agency for Assessment and Recognition of Credentials to provide pre-assessment of international credentials and experience. The Federal Government will work with the provinces and professional associations to ensure foreign-trained professionals meet Canadian standards while getting properly trained professionals working in Canada quickly.

I have here the 2006 budget, which says the government will work toward the establishment of a Canadian agency for the assessment and recognition of foreign credentials. What is the status of this assessment and recognition of foreign credentials agency?

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Thank you for the questions.

I have to admit, first off, that I am surprised that our introduction of Bill C-57, which is aimed at protecting people who are coming to Canada from being exploited or subject to human trafficking, would be so easily dismissed by you. Frankly, I think it's very important legislation, and I'm not going to apologize for having brought it forward, not in the least. I think it's far too important to be dismissed that lightly.

In terms of the foreign credentials review, we did, as we promised, undertake extensive consultations. I, while I was in both this ministry and my previous one, and my predecessor in this department, our officials in both departments, as well as our political staff undertook extensive consultations with a very wide range of stakeholders right across the country. We consulted all the provinces and territories, post-secondary institutions, regulatory bodies, settlement agencies, immigration groups—very exhaustive consultations. And what they told us was that having a federal agency would actually be inappropriate.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

So is this another broken promise, Minister?

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

This is responding to the needs of Canadians, responding to the consultations, and being willing to work with people to develop a process that will actually help new Canadians, people who are considering coming here.

I've been told too many times by too many people how they waited to come to Canada for three or four years. They got here, and then it could take them as long as two years to find out even where to get their credentials evaluated. Once they did so, they discovered that there was a gap between their credentials and what was required to practice in Canada. Then it took them maybe two years to go back to school. Many of them couldn't afford it by that point.

Our federal foreign credentials referrals office, which we announced last week, is going to help these people very quickly identify where and how to get their credentials assessed, even before they get to Canada, so that they can close the gap on their skills by the time they get here. It will get them to work in their chosen trades.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Minister, sorry, because I have limited time, I want to focus on the question.

At the time of the campaign, I remember very clearly how the Conservative candidates were exploiting the frustrations of Canadians—like the ones you're expressing—and made a promise, a pledge, that the Conservative government would create a pre-assessment foreign credentials agency. So I need a clear answer from you.

Is this another policy that was promised without any thought put into it, and now that you're in government you are breaking that promise because you recognize that it's unfulfillable?

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

This is responding to the needs of Canadians. Is there something about that with which you have a problem?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

No. I'm asking about the promise. Did you not make a promise to create an assessment agency?

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

I think what's important here is the action that we're taking to help new Canadians and would-be Canadians.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Minister, I hope you answer my question. Did you not promise to create an assessment agency?

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Those were the terms that we put forward, and what we've done is provide something that will actually be workable.