Citizenship and Immigration Committee on March 31st, 2008

[Tung Chan]

Yes, sir, if that's the question you're asking, but I think we should give you more than just a yes or no answer.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you, Mr. Chan.

Mr. St-Cyr.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you all for being here today. It was very interesting to hear your presentations. I liked them all, that of Ms. Fuchs, among others. You cited a lot of actual examples of difficult situations. We must all remember that we are dealing with human beings.

There are a lot of newcomers in my Montreal riding. I've had to deal with a lot of immigration problems. I've always been somewhat surprised to see to what extent the machinery was incapable of compassion and how far people are treated like numbers. Since being appointed the Bloc Québécois' critic, I've been simply astounded by the absurdity of a number of decisions, including some made recently. For example, we had to fight to allow a widow to get a visa to come and pick up her husband's remains in Quebec.

In that respect, the work done by organizations such as yours is quite outstanding. A number of organizations of this kind are doing good work in my riding. I'm convinced you are as well. We addressed the funding issue earlier. In my riding, these organizations just get by, surviving I don't know how.

In view of our society's wealth, do you think that organizations such as yours, which are on the front line when it comes to helping people who need it, receive adequate funding from government and from society?

[Erika Del Carmen Fuchs]

No. Many of our organizations are not funded.

I would agree with a lot of what you're saying. We have to remember that these are human beings.

I wouldn't just advocate for funding our organizations. I would also say the government has a responsibility. For example, in Alberta, there's an advocacy centre funded by the government directly as well. It's the federal government's responsibility as well to ensure that there is a standard, that people are treated like human beings. The point system doesn't work. It isn't treating people like human beings. And no, our organizations definitely don't receive funding.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

I'm going to consider that your answer applies to the entire group. I believe that everyone agrees.

Ms. Alcuitas?

[Lualhati Alcuitas]

Thank you.

I'd like to share also that women's organizations are being harshly affected as well because of the cuts to the women's program at Status of Women Canada.

For example, the recent changes to the program, basically denying funding for any research and advocacy and only providing services, are also harshly impacting women's organizations that are dealing with women who are facing these types of abuses.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

I agree with you. It is thoroughly repugnant to see cuts being made to this kind of program, when we offer across-the-board tax cuts to oil companies, in particular.

I'd like to go back to a question that is more—

[Erika Del Carmen Fuchs]

Can I just add one thing?

I did work as a settlement worker before, and the cuts that happened were not just to settlement work.

In B.C., for example, we don't have enough English language programs. We have only up to a benchmark of four or five, whereas in Manitoba, the government funds up to level eight. It's things like that.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Thank you. I wanted to ask some more technical questions.

Ms. Valdecantos, when you talked about the Live-in Caregiver Program, you mentioned four criteria. I only had the time to note down two, that the duration must be 24 months and that it has to be at an employer's residence. What were the other two criteria?

[Denise Valdecantos]

It was temporary immigration status, and it's an employer-specific permit.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

You say that these characteristics, these pillars undermine workers and live-in caregivers, and I understand that perfectly well. Do you have an idea of the reason why those criteria were established? Why, for example, are workers required to live on site? What was the government's interest in putting that obligation in place?

[Denise Valdecantos]

There is this shortage. There is the need for caregivers. There's a need for people to work within homes, because with the health care system the way it is and the shortage that's going on, there's a push to bring the elderly into the household, and there's a need for these people to be cared for.

In regard to children, because there is no national universal child care within Canada, there is a need for child care and day care within the home also. So understandably, there's a need and a push for these labour forces.

As to the history of why this live-in requirement was implemented by the government, I'm not quite sure. It's these exact pillars that are further isolating the women and further exploiting these women.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Ms. Valdecantos or Ms. Alcuitas, what is the standard profile of the employer who hires a live-in caregiver? As a citizen, I don't see how I could hire a person who works and lives in my home. It seems to me that's only an option for extremely well-off individuals. I only see that in American TV series. Who are the people who hire these individuals?

[Lualhati Alcuitas]

Thank you.

For Grassroots Women, we also see that the live-in caregiver program is actually the de facto national child care program of the federal government. The reason we oppose this program is because it is child care accessible only to middle- and upper-class Canadians, leaving working-class women to struggle through survival day to day with no access to affordable and accessible child care.

The reason these employers are able to hire live-in caregivers is because they are also getting a very cheap deal. If you look at it, if you pay $1,500 a month for one child caregiver who can take care of two, three, or four children and also do domestic duties, that employer is getting a very cheap deal, when it costs at least $1,000 a month to put a child into a licensed child care program.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Okay.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

That figure—

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Keep it very short, because we have 14 minutes left, seven for Ms. Chow and seven for Mr. Komarnicki. Go very quickly.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Just repeat the number.

What is the average monthly cost of a live-in caregiver?

[Lualhati Alcuitas]

It's about $1,500 a month, because the live-in caregivers receive minimum wage. So here in B.C. they receive about $8 an hour.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Okay, thank you.

We'll go to Ms. Chow for seven minutes and then to Mr. Komarnicki.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Mr. Chan, do you support a general amnesty for undocumented workers if they have no criminal record, have been here for three or five years, and have worked and paid their taxes? Should they be allowed to stay in Canada?

[Tung Chan]

Yes, they should.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

I assume that the rest of you all say yes, right?

[Erika Del Carmen Fuchs]

Yes. I should add that I'm Mexican and I work with the Latin American population. There's a large undocumented population.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

I know that.

Right now the live-in caregiver program says that you have to work 24 months within the 36 months. My understanding is that live-in caregivers should come in as permanent residents, period.

That's number one. Failing that, change the program so visas go to the jobs and not the employers. That's the same question I have asked for all the.... That's the second-best. The third-best is to get rid of the 24 out of 36.

Am I correct in interpreting that that would be the tiered kind of response? That's for any of you who want to comment.