Citizenship and Immigration Committee on March 31st, 2008

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Mr. Chairman, the point I want to make is that there is a difference between reporting for the press, coming to a meeting and making a news clip, and having something televised. When we have something televised, we have a committee meeting and coverage of that meeting from start to finish. And this is not the case. This is no different from having somebody from a radio station or any of the other media people coming in, taking some notes, talking about the issue, and dealing with it. This is not being televised. There will be a news story on it, but right now, we're not being filmed, and this is not playing on the air. When we're back in Ottawa, when we have televised meetings, then it goes from gavel to gavel, and that's televised. This is totally different.

Getting back to the motion, Mr. Chair, this is a procedural issue that we're dealing with, not a substantive motion. And I can tell you, Mr. Chair, the two times I chaired the committee, in 2003 and 2005, when we went from coast to coast, we never tried to shut down the media. I know there have been manuals written for the chairs of committees on how to frustrate the work of committees, but, Mr. Chair, I really hope you don't go down that road.

I have another motion I want to raise after this.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Well, I'm not about to get into defining what is televised and what isn't. I can only tell you that we're governed by the House of Commons rules, and the House of Commons rules are very clear in the Standing Orders. As chair of the committee, I'm bound by the Standing Orders.

With respect to motions, I want to remind the committee again that we did have a motion before we came to the committee, saying that we would not have any substantive motions come before the committee while we were having these hearings, and we all unanimously agreed to that.

I would say to the committee that we're wasting valuable time here.

So the ruling is that I have to go by Standing Order 119.1(1) of the House.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Is the committee the master of its own decisions?

My question to you is very simple, sir. Are we the masters of our own decisions?

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

We cannot alter the rules of the House of Commons when it comes to the Standing Orders. We can't adjust or ignore what the Standing Orders are. We're governed, as every member knows, by the Standing Orders.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

With due respect, sir, is this being broadcast live?

I understand that the Standing Orders say that when we're in session, it should be broadcasted.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

No, it doesn't say anything about live or not.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Well, in the House of Commons we are being broadcast. Yes or no?

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

That's irrelevant. We're talking about the committee.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

It has relevance, sir, because if my constituents wanted to amend—

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

I'm asking the committee to respect the fact that we have witnesses here today who want to present their views to us so that we can in turn present those views to the minister at some point.

Now, we're wasting valuable time, and I would ask—

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Mr. Chair, I asked a question. I want an answer, sir.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

I will shut down this hearing if I can't proceed.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

If you shut it down, then I'll challenge your shutting it down, sir.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

I will shut down this hearing if the committee can't proceed.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Sir, in the House of Commons, people can tune in and listen. Are we having the same capability here? Can anybody tune in and listen to what is happening to the committee--yes or no?

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

I am not about to define what the standing order is. It's very clear. The standing order says that we have to have permission first of all from the House of Commons to do it.

Now, do you want me to proceed here, or do I have to say to these witnesses, who have gone through an awful lot of trouble to be here today, that we are not going to hear them and we're not going to hear the other people who have come here? Is this what you want me to do?

We have come thousands of miles to hear these people. Now, will you--

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Mr. Chair, let's not play politics here. You got a request to let these people in. You ruled against it. The chair was challenged. Let's put it to a vote.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

No. This is a standing order of the House of Commons and we have to abide by it.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

What does the standing order say about travelling?

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

The standing order is very clear. We have to have permission of the House of Commons before we can allow--

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Could you read that again, sir?

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

It reads as follows:

Any committee wishing to have its proceedings televised, other than by means of those facilities provided for that purpose by the House of Commons, shall first obtain the consent of the House thereto.

It's very clear.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

That states in the House of Commons; does it state when it's travelling?

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Look, I'm not going to entertain this any longer.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

You're shutting down the press. That's what you're doing. You're muzzling the press.