Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 20th, 2007

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

The reason for the amendment is that--

[An hon. member]

Can we distribute copies?

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Well, we could if you want to.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

We'd like to have copies of all these amendments, please.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

What I'm trying to suggest is that because as parliamentary secretary you're involved with the department, the minister, and with your own members, you're quite familiar with the agenda and where it ought to go. Sometimes it makes sense...and I know that Mr. Telegdi at one time suggested I might want to sit on the subcommittee. We were dealing with lost Canadians, and it made some sense.

I mean, vote how you wish, but I simply indicate to you that it might be valuable, in some cases, to have the parliamentary secretary on that agenda-setting committee. If you feel otherwise, fair enough, but I would appeal to you to allow the motion to pass so that I can sit on it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Any further discussion before we go to a vote on this?

Mr. Karygiannis and Madam Beaumier.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Chair, I'm going to present the same arguments I presented the last time we went through this. Having been a parliamentary secretary in the past, when we were a minority government, the Conservatives at that time did not want the parliamentary secretary to sit on the subcommittee. I don't see why we should be changing that protocol and procedure.

The parliamentary secretary certainly is there to represent the minister and has the minister's wishes in mind and the minister's guidance. Certainly the subcommittee should be an individual committee that makes up its mind and has no influence whatsoever from the minister or the ministry itself.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Are we ready for the vote on that one or should we go to more discussion?

Madam Beaumier and Ms. Chow.

[Colleen Beaumier, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

My concern isn't even that the minister is having control. I think we've seen in the past, and anyone who was on the immigration committee under the last government knows, that the parliamentary secretary comes to the meetings. She represents more or less the department's position. We are the elected members of this Parliament. We do not need to have interference in our agenda by department officials. They already have enough interference in what we do. I think we've seen this in the past with parliamentary secretaries. I don't like the idea that they're going to control our agenda as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you.

Ms. Chow.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

I just want some clarification. I assume that a second member for the Liberal Party and a member from the other opposition party--i.e., New Democrats, or it could be the Bloc--means, then, that the NDP is not part of the subcommittee on agenda and procedure? If so, I would then object.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

No, the NDP will be certainly part of it--

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Under “other opposition parties”?

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Right, yes, because I think the intent is that the NDP members would certainly be part of it.

I have Mr. Batters and Mr. Bevilacqua.

Mr. Batters.

[Dave Batters, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

I have just a quick comment, Mr. Chair, a question, if I might, to Mr. Karygiannis, because I don't know the answer to this.

When we were in the 38th Parliament and we sat on the transport committee together, did you not serve on the steering committee on transport? You did not?

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

No, sir. If I remember correctly—and we can certainly call up the blues—you were the one who was making a big fuss about it--

[Dave Batters, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

No.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

—that I shouldn't be sitting in the subcommittee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Through the chair, please, because these things always—

[Dave Batters, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

No, no, honestly, Mr. Karygiannis, you do have that wrong. It was just an honest mistake.

Mr. Chair, through you, it was an honest question. I couldn't remember.

I thought perhaps you had sat on that steering committee, Mr. Karygiannis. On my honour, I made absolutely no comments that this would have been a bad thing.

I would like to say to this committee--because it's going to fall to me to be on the steering committee, from the Conservative Party, from the government--that you can expect a learning curve. You're going to have to be patient and bear with me as we go through the learning curve. Mr. Komarnicki is very familiar with all these files, so you'll just have to bear with me as we go through it, then.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you.

Mr. Bevilacqua.

[Maurizio Bevilacqua, Liberal, Vaughan, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

We had a pretty confusing meeting last time, and I certainly don't want to participate in making this one the same way.

If I recall correctly, one of the things we did talk about last meeting was that in fact for routine motions--routine proceedings, actually--the last ones would be applied to this session. We can do that with simply one motion. We don't have to go through all these very specific items. If it's a simple sort of application of past rules, then it's just a simple motion of whether we want to apply them or not.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Except we need some amendments...[Inaudible].

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Yes, we do have—

[Maurizio Bevilacqua, Liberal, Vaughan, ON]

Do you know which ones?