Citizenship and Immigration Committee on April 8th, 2008

[Amy Casipullai]

No, I'm saying we don't have a process right now and that what seems to be a process is not effective.

I would actually like Francisco to answer that question in detail.

[Francisco Rico-Martinez]

We're only referring to the fact that when you are non-status, the law doesn't provide any process that provides a real option for that person to live in Canada permanently. That's our point.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

All right. I'll go back to Amy. I want to pursue this.

Part of the concern they have is that some of this may be because there aren't other means for the persons to come in. Past governments, and this government, have looked at trying to find a legitimate means for people to come in. One of the programs has been the CREWS program in Ontario for the construction workers. There's the provincial nominee program, where provinces can nominate people to come to the country on a permanent basis to meet specific regional needs in various industries that they may decide upon. They control that. The government looks at it from the point of security and health. That's their concern.

Would you agree that perhaps we should look at providing some legitimate means, whether it's CREWS, the provincial nominee program, or the Canadian experience class, so people don't find themselves in an illegal position, if you want to call it that?

[Amy Casipullai]

Yes, certainly. That's why we asked for a discussion of Bill C-50, for example--for the standing committee to have the opportunity to look at it. I think our goal is to look for legitimate means.

But the problem is that legislation also needs to consider the situation, let's say, of the family class, who are also workers who bring skills to Canada. Just because they don't come under the skilled worker class doesn't mean they sit around and do nothing; they are part of our communities and economy. Right now IRPA has far too many gaps that don't address these situations.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

So if you're saying that we should look at--

[Macdonald Scott]

May I also add that your government didn't sign the CREWS, which killed it. And it never allowed for permanent residency. The CREWS program never allowed for permanent residency.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

I'm going to have to cut it off there, because we've gone into eight minutes. I'd love to give you more time.

When we're in the area, I generally cut a bit of slack for the member who happens to represent the area. Mr. Karygiannis, 30 seconds at the end.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

I have a quick question.

This committee proposed--and it went to the House last year--that until we have an opportunity to have the hearings and make the report we don't deport undocumented workers. I sought a unanimous motion in the House, and unfortunately it was not given. I'm not going to go to the member who jumped up and down and said no; she knows who she is.

My question is whether this would have been something you would see your NGO supporting.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

I'll ask for a brief response.

Who was that directed to, Mr. Karygiannis?

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Any one of them.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Okay, go ahead folks.

[Francisco Rico-Martinez]

Anything that makes it possible for a person to have a real option to live permanently in Canada and not to have the possibility of being removed, detained, and forced to leave, or whatever, is welcome by the NGO sector. In that case, if you are going in that direction, that would be great.

Let me finish by saying that one of the areas I would love to have the committee take a look at in terms of the research is how many temporary workers and non-status people are in Canada without their families and without the possibility of bringing their families into Canada. We are going to get to 100,000 maybe, or more than that. You can ask Immigration Canada to give you a solid number of how many people are living here without their families right now. If you have that number, you will have a solid number to go after the violations that we are creating for the family status of the people by having these temporary programs. And the non-status people don't have an option in Canada.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you so much.

You made some very good presentations, and we appreciate it. As I keep saying to witnesses, at the end of the day we will make recommendations to government based upon what we're hearing.

Thank you. Your presentations were good. Thank you for coming.

We will suspend for a few minutes to give other people a chance to come to the table and some people a chance to have a break.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Order, please.

I want to get people back to the table for our committee. We're seven minutes over now, so we need to get it going.

I will invite to the table our next panel.

On behalf of the committee, I want to welcome today the Canadian Hispanic Congress. Do we have Vilma Filici, president, here yet? No, she's not here.

We have, from the Canadian Ecumenical Justice Initiatives, or KAIROS, Alfredo Barahona, program coordinator for refugees and migrants. I hope I have it right.

We have, from the Labourers' International Union of North America, Cosmo Mannella, with the Canadian Tri-Fund. Welcome, Cosmo.

Do we have José Eustaquio? José, it's good to have you here too.

[José M. Eustaquio, Labourers' International Union of North America (LIUNA)]

Mr. Mannella will be speaking on our behalf.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Good. Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

From the Mennonite New Life Centre of Toronto, we have Mariela Salinas, a student intern for settlement.

I'm a Newfoundland Irishman. I find it hard speaking Spanish or French.

Welcome to all of you.

Just to give you an idea of how we work, each organization has about seven minutes to make an opening statement.

We welcome you to now begin your opening statement, Alfredo. You have seven minutes.

[Alfredo Barahona, Program Coordinator, Refugees and Migrants, Canadian Ecumenical Justice Initiatives (KAIROS)]

Good morning. On behalf of KAIROS, I thank you for the opportunity to participate in this dialogue.

KAIROS is a partnership of 11 churches and church-related agencies. We work to promote human rights and social and economic justice in Canada and abroad. KAIROS promotes the rights of refugees and migrants within the context of the human rights of all people.

KAIROS believes that migrant workers and undocumented people are a hidden workforce whose role is invaluable to Canada, yet they're excluded from the basic justice provided to Canadian citizens.

KAIROS is also part of a migrant justice network in Canada, which brings together the concerns of live-in caregivers, seasonal agricultural workers, non-status migrants, as well as the evocative experiences of migrant organizations, faith groups, unions, community activists, and university researchers.

I come before you with mixed feelings, because while l truly welcome the opportunity to present our concerns and recommendations, at the same time I cannot help but experience a great sense of frustration and disappointment with the recently proposed changes to the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act through Bill C-50. These changes will give the minister the power to narrow processing of immigration applications. Concentrating the power of decision in one person to decide who gets in and who doesn't sets a dangerous precedent for a healthy democratic system. Regrettably, these changes confirm our concerns that current policy changes are increasingly treating immigrants as an economic unit to be brought here through temporary visa arrangements.

The focus of today's meeting, of course, is to talk about undocumented and temporary migrant workers in Canada. While we are not opposed to bringing migrant workers to help our economy, we strongly advocate that it should be done in a way that sets a clear path that allows for permanent resident status and family reunification.

KAIROS believes these are key components of a successful immigration strategy for the future of Canada. We are extremely disappointed that Canada, a country that won the Nansen medal in 1986 in recognition of the country's hospitality and welcoming immigration policies, especially for its work to protect refugees, is moving farther and farther from a system that grants permanent residency and settlement opportunities to the people we need in order to keep up with economic and demographic pressures.

In any dialogue on immigration issues, we need to remember that Canada is a country built by immigrants. Statistics and surveys show us time and time again that Canada depends on immigration to maintain economic and demographic growth. Canada needs immigrants. Why not provide migrant workers access to permanent resident status? Workers are human beings and not commodities to be traded across borders.

It is necessary not to consider these issues only in the context of an economic and labour shortage. All these issues of temporary foreign workers and undocumented people in Canada are intertwined and they have very important human dimensions that must not be overlooked.

Migrant workers and their families are currently paying an enormous human cost to participate in Canada's temporary foreign worker program. I urge you to consider the impact of our immigration policies and programs on families and children.

I am sure most of us in this room can relate to what migrant families go through to survive. For example, when we go away for work reasons, even if it's just for one night, we know how this will impact on our spouses and our children. We would not be there to pick up children from school, help with homework, help put them to bed, say good night. Imagine what it's like for families who are separated for years at a time. Imagine what it's like for parents and children who don't even know if and when they will see each other. That is what undocumented workers and migrant workers go through even as we speak.

Canadian churches wish to add their voices to advocate for just and fair immigration policies that truly benefit all stakeholders. We are called to advocate especially on behalf of those who are more vulnerable than we are because they have different citizenship and immigration status. Migrant workers, non-status migrants, regardless of their legal status, deserve just wages and fair treatment. No migrant workers should be required to perform forced or compulsory labour beyond labour standards. Migrant workers, regardless of their status, possess an inherent human dignity that should be respected. Their basic human rights and their basic needs must be protected.

KAIROS calls on the Government of Canada to sign the International Convention on the Protection of the Rights of All Migrant Workers and Members of Their Families.

We call on the Government of Canada to undertake a full review of the immigration system to genuinely reflect Canadian labour and demographic needs, including needs for caregivers, agricultural workers, and others whose skills are currently unrecognized or inadequately recognized.

Grant migrant workers equal access to permanent residence, equal access to the services accorded to permanent residents, and equal access to family reunification in recognition of their human dignity and the significant contributions they make to Canadian society.

Monitor and--

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

We're kind of trying to keep it to seven minutes.

[Alfredo Barahona]

I have two more points and then I will be done.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Okay.

[Alfredo Barahona]

Thank you.

We urge you to monitor and enforce employment standards and appropriate housing and working conditions.

We want you to regulate, if not scrap, the activities of recruiting agencies and brokers.

Finally, provide funding to community-based settlement agencies to provide support to migrant workers, including access to legal services, public health care, language instruction, and worker information centres.

Thanks very much for your time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you, Alfredo.

Cosmo Mannella, go ahead, sir.

[Cosmo Mannella, Director, Canadian Tri-Fund, Labourers' International Union of North America (LIUNA)]

Thank you very much for the opportunity to appear before this committee. We feel honoured.

I want to start by making some general comments about the undocumented worker situation and the work that has already been done by our union and our employer partners and other organizations in a coordinated effort over the last couple of years to try to bring some resolution.

We cannot continue these 10- to 20-year cycles of masses of undocumented workers fuelling the underground economy in Canada and living in an environment of exploitation and fear. We advocate that the federal government address this issue by recognizing the importance and the contribution to the economy of Canada of these workers. We have laid out what we believe is a common-sense plan to the minister on a number of occasions. I will be leaving our brief with you.

Let me talk in general about the process. The Toronto construction sector accepts the established legal framework of Canada's visa-issuing process. The statutory, regulatory, judicial, and administrative foundations may not be perfect, but they are without parallel in the entire planet. In addition to the formal structures, LIUNA supports the broad range of public NGO- and private-sector-funded interested stakeholders and advocacy groups whose mission is to protect the interests of individuals and specific groups. The core immigration-related issue of process presently facing the construction sector is the structure and ability of the visa-related public policy process to deal in a timely manner with real issues impacting real people in a real way.

We acknowledge and are thankful for the recent success of a system that now competently administers a series of meaningful HRSDC immigration and provincial nominee programs of crucial interest to our industry. Nevertheless, it should not have taken a prolonged, sometimes adversarial, politically driven, and always difficult struggle to achieve this common-sense solution.

LIUNA and the Toronto construction sector are not presumptuous enough to believe that all our requirements will be considered on a forthwith basis, nor should they be. Nevertheless, it is unacceptable that practical industrial-sector-related visa issues cannot be resolved, let alone discussed, in a timely, common-sense manner without policy-makers, whether administrative or political, feeling the overarching time-consuming, politically driven burden of excessive legalism and presumed self-serving confrontation.

Presently, excessive concern with legalistic propriety and political agendas demand that it takes forever to even obtain access to policy-makers and then define patently obvious visa-related issues. This is no way to run an economy. The laws should be there to protect individual and collective rights, not define economic and social need. Public policy should not be left to officials or lawyers. Industrial sectors as well as other stakeholders should be involved in the mix. The visa public policy structure should not treat a vital industrial sector as an ad hoc troublesome interloper requiring political manoeuvring in order to obtain access.

LIUNA supports the introduction of a non-political process that addresses visa-related policy issues in a timely, transparent, and non-adversarial manner. Although such a process must clearly be built around the statutory power and responsibility of a minister, the minister must never control the process. The process should exist for the minister to listen, absorb, and recommend policy solutions in an expeditious manner. The House, this committee, officials, and LIUNA may not accept the minister's solution, but at the very least we should be discussing the solutions to real problems in a more timely and civilized manner.

It is in the above spirit that LIUNA supports the principle of an ongoing, transparent, ministerial-structured public policy forum, as was recently recommended. LIUNA, both as a participant in the building trades and as a broadly based group of citizens, suggests that the time has come for public policy to promote a series of qualitative benchmarks designed to help the Canadian macro-economy and judge the ability and commitment of visa recipients to benefit the overall economy and the individual.

I want to continue by suggesting that immigration policy should be directly tied to some variables of our economy, from time to time, with direct and continued consultation with industry and unions. Given the synergistic nature of the unionized construction industry, our government would benefit from accurate information that could be relayed towards the formation of immigration policy related to the importation of skills on a timely basis. Consultation should not be an isolated event but a formal and continuous process with goal-setting based on the real needs of our industry.

Immigration policy should be organic and flexible, particularly in the determination of skills. In fact, why isn't a carpenter who has been framing houses for four years, and doing it in a credible and honest way, given the same weight as a university student with a three-year or four-year undergraduate degree? We need to have that recognized as being just as important to society. If there is an in-Canada economic class developed for students who are doing undergraduate work, then the same principles should apply to carpenters, who are doing the essential work of this economy.

Immigration goals should focus on a quantitative analysis of the needs of the Canadian economy and move away from simple numeric goals.

Compassion is always an issue and should always be a the forefront.

We cannot escape the reality of numbers. It makes no sense to have unrealistic numbers that can never be processed and that create massive backlogs and an inherent desperation and futility among would-be immigrants to Canada. It makes no sense to continue with that atmosphere of futility.

In closing, I just want to say that I hope the government will see fit, at least during these public hearings, to hold off on any future deportation of undocumented workers. They are an essential component of our industry and an essential component of many other industries and the economy. The vast majority have paid a meaningful and real price for being here. Many are now entrenched in our system and have become an essential component, at least in our industry, of the human resource requirements.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you.

I'm sorry, first of all, that I overlooked Tanya in the introduction. I don't know how it happened, but welcome.

You are both with the Mennonite New Life Centre. You have seven or eight minutes. Go ahead.

[Tanya Molina, Executive Director, Mennonite New Life Centre of Toronto]

Thank you. We'll be sharing the presentation.

Thank you for the opportunity to participate in these consultations. This is a critical moment for discussion on undocumented and temporary workers.

Like many of the other groups this morning who have spoken, we are also very concerned by recently introduced changes to the immigration legislation as part of the federal budget. These changes do limit access to permanent resident status. As we understand it, the minister would have the power to establish categories of applications, the order in which they would be processed, and numerical limits, with the result that some eligible applications would not even be processed. Further restricting access to permanent resident status can be expected to only increase the number of undocumented persons in Canada.

We are also very concerned with projected increases in the number of temporary work permits to be processed relative to applications granting permanent status. Temporary status places workers at increased risk of exploitation, and temporary workers lack voice and vote in our political system.

We believe that Canada should welcome newcomers as fully equal participants in Canadian society, and access to permanent status is key to assuring that equality.

The Mennonite New Life Centre has served newcomers to Canada for the past 25 years. The most vulnerable group of newcomers that we see and accompany and serve are people without status.

We've sent a brief to committee members outlining in further detail our recommendations and concerns, but I'd like to invite you this morning to take a few moments to listen to Mariela as she tells a bit of her story. Mariela is a talented and committed student intern at the Mennonite New Life Centre, and she knows first-hand what it is to live without status.