Citizenship and Immigration Committee on April 9th, 2008

[John Ryan]

Mr. St-Cyr, as you know, if you do not have a quorum of members at an annual general meeting, you cannot entertain the business of the day. In fact, if the members had properly.... I don't think they're misleading the committee; I just don't think they've given you complete information.

If the members had given you the complete information on the four separate attempts the Canadian Society made on June 16, July 18, August 20, and September 20 to achieve the minimum quorum required to hold the AGM, and had that AGM been held, then the members certainly would have been able to get in. However, as the chairperson, I cannot open a meeting of the members unless I have quorum; hence, there is no way to discuss the business of the day.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

All right. What is the quorum?

[John Ryan]

Under our bylaws quorum is defined as 20% of the membership.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

We were also told that, in March 2007, the society's ethical rules were amended to add disparagement of the society as a professional offence. Is that correct?

[Rivka Augenfeld]

As in any professional association, the members have obligations to their professional association. The codes of ethics of other professional bodies set limits on what one may say. There is legitimate criticism, and there is disparagement.

[John Ryan]

I think, Mr. St-Cyr, you will also find--

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

I'll simply continue because I still have a few questions and no doubt not much time.

We were also told that the society ignored an official request to provide the membership list to a candidate in the 2007 election. Is that correct?

[John Ryan]

Well, that's not done. I'm not aware of that request. But we publish on our website who the candidates are. If you want to look at the election procedures.... They're in the procedures; they're right there. In fact, the documentation for this election is available. Everything is pre-published, and it has to be between 90 and 120 days in advance. So I don't understand why--

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Does a candidate for election have the membership list so he can reach the members?

[Rivka Augenfeld]

All the membership lists are on the website.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

All right, thank you.

[Rivka Augenfeld]

The names of revoked members are also on the website.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

The other information that was provided to us is that members had to pay $800 to attend a mandatory educational conference in Toronto in May 2007 and that, if they did not attend, they had to buy a DVD of that conference for $800 and that that was mandatory for all members. Is that correct?

[Rivka Augenfeld]

Continuing professional training is mandatory. A part of the 40 points that must be acquired over a two-year period is mandatory. We organized a conference, which had a high participation rate. For those who could not come, we provided podcasts of all sessions on the website. Someone who couldn't come could access them, but he had to pay for them, like the people who came did.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Is it possible to share the expenses? Four persons in a single office can watch the same DVD. Could four people buy one?

[John Ryan]

No, Mr. St-Cyr, we are a professional organization and we, as members, equally shoulder the costs of running the regulator. The cost of producing, preparing for, and putting that conference on was borne equally by each and every member. That is a philosophy at the core of our mission and vision values, and it's one that, if you are a professional member of our order, you have a responsibility to. So if fees are due and payable to support the society, everyone is exposed to them, whether they are in attendance or not.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Have you had sufficient time to answer?

Mr. St-Cyr, do you require an extra minute or so to--

[John Ryan]

I would just like to call Mr. St-Cyr's attention to the binder that we have circulated to all members this morning. I think he will find that all the bylaws and procedures and processes for motions, including our election processes and procedures, are absolutely democratic and in keeping with best corporate practices.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

The members are made aware of all that?

[John Ryan]

The members are advised 90 days in advance of any AGM, of any business at the AGM, of the voting procedures, etc. It's all there.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Good. Thank you, Mr. Ryan.

[Rivka Augenfeld]

Mr. St-Cyr, at the end of the kit that we provided you, you'll find a comparative table of the costs involved in belonging to various professional bodies in Canada: the law society, notarial associations, fees, mandatory charges, insurance, compensation funds, and so on.

[John Ryan]

It's just at the back of the binder. There's one page, the last page. The source for these figures, ladies and gentlemen, is the Federation of Law Societies and CSIC. It's a comparison across Canada of fees that are paid by authorized representatives, irrespective of the body. If you look just quickly at the last column, CSIC's fees, you'll see we have 1,350 members as of the date of these fees; $2,145 was our membership, including insurance. You can quickly glance across the line to see how we compare with other authorized representative bodies. In fact, what you'll find is that we are in the lower quartile of fees charged for professional membership in our order.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Earlier you referred me to section 11.3—

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Okay, I will allow one more question.