The visa was good for a year.
Evidence of meeting #33 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was work.
Evidence of meeting #33 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was work.
1:20 p.m.
Owner, Stewart Mussel Farms Inc.
Yes, and I had the option to renew their contract and keep them longer if I wanted to.
1:20 p.m.
Liberal
Andrew Telegdi Liberal Kitchener—Waterloo, ON
Yes.
You mentioned that they ended up saying they were concerned that once it expired, they'd have to leave.
1:20 p.m.
Owner, Stewart Mussel Farms Inc.
To the best of our knowledge, that's what happened.
1:20 p.m.
Liberal
Andrew Telegdi Liberal Kitchener—Waterloo, ON
Well, let's suppose for a minute that their motivation is correct. Then it would be somewhat helpful, when people come here, if they knew that it wasn't a one-shot deal and that if they were to work out, they would get to extend.
I'll give you the example of the nanny program. People come over, and if they're employed two out of three years, then they can become landed. If that were put out—
1:20 p.m.
Owner, Stewart Mussel Farms Inc.
It's the same with this type of operation as well.
1:20 p.m.
Liberal
Andrew Telegdi Liberal Kitchener—Waterloo, ON
They could? Then I guess the fact that they were worried about being removed after eight months or one year was not valid, or they didn't understand it.
1:20 p.m.
Owner, Stewart Mussel Farms Inc.
Well, the contracts they signed were presented to them in Sri Lanka in their language, so they should have understood. Most of these people were extremely smart people with experience—everything from forklift tickets and training to mechanics. They weren't just people off the street; these were people who had experience and knowledge to bring to Canada.
1:20 p.m.
Liberal
Andrew Telegdi Liberal Kitchener—Waterloo, ON
This raises another question, then. They sound as though they have skills and can be employable and can be absorbed by other parts of the economy. What we tend to do is put over-qualified people into jobs they don't need all those qualifications for.
What comes to mind is that Tim Hortons recently hired 100 people from the Philippines, all university graduates, and they're working at Tim Hortons in Alberta at $12 an hour. I wondered about the advisability. If I were running Tim Hortons, why would I want university graduates employed for a year, when I know full well that once the year expires I'm going to lose them? If I didn't have university graduates, the chances are that I would probably have a better chance of retaining them.
I raise that because it points to the fact that we need menial labour, which takes some skills, but when you require too much in the way of qualifications, you might have this happen.
Could you provide the committee with a copy of the contract you had with them? I would really like to see it. I think it would be useful for the committee as we study this and make recommendations.
What they've done is almost assure themselves that when the visa expires, they either go underground or they'll leave the country.
April 15th, 2008 / 1:20 p.m.
Liberal
Raymonde Folco Liberal Laval—Les Îles, QC
It's not all that easy to get refugee status from Sri Lanka. There are some pretty hard and fast rules these days.
1:20 p.m.
Owner, Stewart Mussel Farms Inc.
One of the guys called two weeks ago and offered to come back now and work at my processing plant, because he said he had the okay to stay for the next four years. He was all prepared to come back to work, now that he has the okay to stay.
1:25 p.m.
Liberal
Andrew Telegdi Liberal Kitchener—Waterloo, ON
The other thing we should be doing, Mr. Chairman, is to find out from the department how much information the department makes available to employers who hire temporary foreign workers.
Obviously it was a big disappointment for you, and you learned. But I wonder whether it would have been useful, had you known that these things happen all the time, for the department to have told you--if you had been forewarned. I could see you being in a real lurch after you had made a $50,000 investment, which I'm sure is not easy for a small business to absorb.
I'm surprised—you had a 12-seat van —that they didn't take the van, that they left it there.
1:25 p.m.
Owner, Stewart Mussel Farms Inc.
Well, I own the van, and part of the deal was that I would provide transportation to get them to the local town at least once a week for their shopping and groceries and to wire money back to their families.
1:25 p.m.
Conservative
1:25 p.m.
Liberal
Raymonde Folco Liberal Laval—Les Îles, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
As a complement to what my colleague Andrew Telegdi has said, there is another thing I'd like to check. Some of the questions Andrew was asking have to do with you personally, and what has happened to you.
I've worked with refugees and I've worked with people from Sri Lanka, but this is the first time I've heard of this. I should have known, human nature being what it is, but it's actually the first time I've heard such a story, and I wonder whether we could ask the researchers to check as to whether Immigration Canada follows up on this kind of abuse--because it is abuse, abuse on the part of these employees who use the system to their own ends, and we know that this system is used by a lot of people.
I wonder if Immigration Canada keeps a file so that if an individual who has worked for Mr. Stewart, for example, disappears and then figures he's going to be asking for refugee status--well, hold on a minute, there's a file, and we know that he's.... That's one thing. Then we could also check in the file if that man tries to come back to work for another employer in two or three years' time. His name should be kept on file so that we know if he's already done something that may not be against the law but is certainly against the rules as we all understand them.
1:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle
When they come, the employer could make them aware that a file is being kept, and that if they should violate the terms and conditions of the contract, the file would go to Immigration for future reference.
1:25 p.m.
Owner, Stewart Mussel Farms Inc.
We were very surprised that they left and didn't take a change of clothes. They didn't take anything. We had their passports and all their personal information in a safe, to keep those things safe for them.
One of the things Immigration told us was that this would be their plan, and that if we had not located them through my work in talking to the taxi drivers, Immigration offices in Ottawa and wherever would not even have been expecting these people to leave their employment with me.
Officials told me that in this type of situation they walk into the office and complain and identify themselves as somebody they're not, so that their names are not in the system. I was told that a typical story would be that they came from out west, where they were being abused, and that they took off and were now claiming refugee status.
Only because we pursued the matter and tried to locate them, because we were genuinely concerned for what had happened to them--
1:25 p.m.
Liberal
Raymonde Folco Liberal Laval—Les Îles, QC
Mr. Stewart, this is something they don't know, but I happen to have worked on the Immigration and Refugee Board and I can tell you that you don't just walk in and say you're a refugee. That doesn't work.
Some people can take advantage of the system, yes, but just so you know, if one of these individuals had shown up and said that he worked for an employer who was not behaving as he should have towards an employee--for example, in terms of living conditions, or whatever--then people would check up, you know. We would ask for the name of the employer and check up on the employer and do that kind of thing. If he comes with another name, then you have to put all the pieces of the puzzle together, and it's not always easy.
The thing is, there is another individual between you and the employee. In French we call that person un intervenant. That is the individual who actually hired these people in your name, who went and got them in your name--this entrepreneur, if you like. My impression of those I've met is that once the employees get on the farm or wherever, that's the end of the entrepreneur's responsibility. If you got hold of the entrepreneur to say that these guys had walked out on you and asked the entrepreneur not to deal with them if they asked to come back, I'm not sure it would even be worthwhile.
I think what would really hurt these people is for Immigration Canada to know. I would even suggest that you write a letter to the minister or to the chair of the Immigration and Refugee Board in Ottawa mentioning the names of these people and saying you have heard they intend to ask for refugee status, and explaining what the situation is. The names of these people would be put on the record in their file, and if they ever tried, something would light up on the computer. That's what I would suggest you do.
1:30 p.m.
Owner, Stewart Mussel Farms Inc.
We wrote many letters to every department we could think of, right through to the Prime Minister's Office. I even had a call from Stockwell Day.
1:30 p.m.
Liberal
Raymonde Folco Liberal Laval—Les Îles, QC
You had a call from Stockwell Day? And what did he say, apart from no?
1:30 p.m.
Owner, Stewart Mussel Farms Inc.
He was quite surprised these loopholes could exist, where these people could have a contract to work for me and then.... He acknowledged there were some issues and that they needed to be addressed. That was the extent of it.
1:30 p.m.
Liberal
Raymonde Folco Liberal Laval—Les Îles, QC
Well, I've been in a situation that has some points in common with the one you're living through now. I wrote a letter to the chair of the Immigration and Refugee Board. I said, these are the people and this is what has happened; I've heard that these people intend to apply for refugee status, and I would appreciate it if you would make sure that what I am telling you in the letter is taken into account when they apply. Do you see what I mean? You can't say to refuse them, but you can say that these are the facts.
If you would like, one of the researchers can get you the name and the address of the president or chair of the board--who is not a minister, by the way; they're totally at arm's length. That's what I would suggest.
If these things were better known, I think—