Citizenship and Immigration Committee on April 30th, 2008

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Okay, but if we did proportionally the same as last year, those would be the numbers.

But even as you suggest, compared to the sheer volume, it's still a minuscule amount, and following up with what Mr. St-Cyr said, if you were going to use an additional amount of funds to have a significant number transported over through to another country compared to offering assistance there, you're probably getting more for your dollar if you were able to put those dollars to work in Syria, Jordan, or even inside Iraq. Would you agree?

[Abraham Abraham]

Yes, absolutely. This is what we feel, that there is a need for extra funding to come in response to the appeals as well as bilateral funds that could help to sustain the situation in the region.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

So when you're talking about an actual movement of people from where they are to countries like Canada or the United States, you realize there is a fairly significant cost, but you're basing that on the fact that there's a certain segment of people who are most vulnerable that you'd like to move. Is that correct?

[Abraham Abraham]

That's correct.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

And then you'd like to see funding for the literally thousands and into the millions who are requiring funds, either in the countries they've been displaced to nearby or within the country itself.

[Abraham Abraham]

That's correct, because we must recognize that resettlement is not something that works automatically. It is something we very, very carefully screen. We look at the criteria for resettlement. They must respond to important issues such as their vulnerability and a compelling need for them to be removed from the environment in which they live, because if they continue to live there their lives could be put in danger. These are basically the kinds of cases that we refer for resettlement under the Canadian program and to the other resettlement countries.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

I take it, because you're looking at a set of people who are most vulnerable, that you don't want to break it up into the Christian group, or the Mandaean group, or the other groups; you want to look at it in a global way. Is that correct?

[Abraham Abraham]

No, we will not be looking at any particular groups. I think the basic approach would be to look at the vulnerability of the individual.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

It seems to me, from our travels, there was one group--and I could be mistaken--and I thought it was the Mandaean group that were presently not in Iraq but were being displaced and would like to be able to resettle inside the country of Iraq. Have you made any provision for that group--and I'm not sure if I have the right one--or groups like that?

[Hy Shelow, Senior Protection Officer, Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees]

When we talk about voluntary repatriation, UNHCR generally won't assist with that until it's safe for an individual to do so. While we won't impede return, we won't assist people to go back to a place where they're unsafe or where we can't access them.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

There seemed to be a group, and I can't quite remember which group it was--

[Penny Becklumb, Committee Researcher]

The Chaldean and Assyrians.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

The Chaldeans and Assyrians, who felt they could go back to the northern part of Iraq quite safely and were prepared to do that, but needed some assistance and funding there. They felt that without a whole lot of funding they would be prepared to go back. Do you know about that situation or have any comments about it?

[Hy Shelow]

At the moment we are not advocating for voluntary repatriation, because the situation in Iraq remains unstable.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Those are all the questions I have.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you. That completes our seven-minute round.

For the five-minute round, Mr. Karygiannis.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Thank you.

Indeed, the work you're doing needs to be commended, and I know how difficult it is for you to even come up with those figures.

You said you're looking at 25,000 refugees to be settled in 16 countries. Is this the number you have chosen, or is this the number you are working with because you know those countries will only take those numbers?

[Michael Casasola]

Actually, you're correct, it's an element of both. It reflects both our capacity to identify, as in our statement.... We estimate, and estimated resettlement needs could be as high as 80,000 to 90,000. But we're referring 25,000 to various resettlement countries based on both our capacity and some sense of what the willingness is of resettlement countries.

I think, in fact, we're probably outpacing the willingness of resettlement countries.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

So would it be your recommendation that the number be tripled--you've indicated 80,000 and 25,000 times three is 75,000--because the need is there? And if the need is there and these people do not get settled elsewhere, they could face difficulties.

[Abraham Abraham]

This is why we are appealing for resettlement of larger numbers, because we feel there is a need for greater numbers to be removed from that environment.

We must also remember that giving resettlement also helps, for some numbers of people, to preserve the asylum space in this region. Otherwise, you could have a situation where there might not be any recognition.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Mr. Abraham, by signalling only 25,000 are you not giving the incorrect figure? Some countries could use that. For example, Canada, the U.S., Australia can use the numbers and say, “Look, UNHCR says 25,000 between the 16 countries, and we're taking 27,000. We're okay. We're doing fine.” Are we addressing the problem seriously by saying the need is 80,000 and we're only taking 25,000 because there are 16 countries? We need only to say that. The government of the day will say we went from 1,000 to 2,000. We're taking 10%, and we're doing the biggest part there is, because UNHCR says the need is only for 25,000.

What I hear from you, sir, is that there are 80,000. So really, for the work we're doing here, we have to look at 80,000. Am I correct?

[Abraham Abraham]

I think in terms of resettlement numbers, yes, that's basically what we are saying at the moment, that there are 80,000 to 90,000 people currently in need of resettlement.

But of course the prerogative to resettle these people is that of the states. We can only look to the states and ask them.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

When you say states, are you talking about the United States or the states?

[Abraham Abraham]

I mean the states, the resettlement countries. We can only look to them and say these are the numbers, and of course 25,000—

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Did you put it clearly to our government that 80,000 is the number you are aiming for, or are you stating publicly 25,000?