Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Dec. 11th, 2007

[Robert Carrier, Bloc, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

The UNHCR's request for financial assistance of $123 million is addressed to several countries. Overall, the UNHCR has received approximately 75%. Canada's contribution is $2.1 million. I suppose that this sum is not allocated to refugees alone, but also to CIDA.

Is there a fair breakdown in contributions among the different countries? Since the total amount requested has not been attained, are steps being taken to urge countries to increase their assistance?

[Françoise Ducros]

I want to make sure that I understand your question. You want to know whether or not Canada's contribution meets the country's request?

[Robert Carrier, Bloc, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Yes. We have the breakdown, by donor country, of financial contributions made in response to the UNHCR's request. We know how much several countries contributed. How is our contribution defined? Was it the result of a consensus among several countries?

[Françoise Ducros]

I might answer it, just because the information is in English.

There was a total donor mechanism coordinated through OCHA--the Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs--of humanitarian aid, including for refugees. In 2007 that amounted to $223 million. Canada's percentage of donations given through that mechanism was 2.1%, which is roughly in accordance with the proportion that Canada would put forth.

[Robert Carrier, Bloc, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

You agree that the total amount of assistance requested was not met. You are aware of this. Has anything been done about this?

[Françoise Ducros]

I will have to check and give an answer later on.

[Robert Carrier, Bloc, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

How is Canada contributing to resolving the problem of refugees? There is refugees assistance and overseas assistance. What kind of efforts are being made to coordinate the two? Has a coordination committee been struck?

[Catherine Godin, Director, Humanitarian Affairs and Disaster Response Group, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade]

Mr. Chairman, I can answer that question.

The Government of Canada's approach is that all departments that not only have an interest in the matter but jurisdiction over refugees have a say in the matter. We make sure that all of our expertise is pooled.

The three main departments that you see being represented here today are CIDA, Citizenship and Immigration Canada, and the Department of Foreign Affairs. Efforts are coordinated equally with respect to refugee policy implementation, as well as resettlement policy and humanitarian assistance in dollar terms as provided by CIDA. The role of the Department of Foreign Affairs is to oversee this coordination.

This coordination is part of a long-term effort. It is undertaken each time the UNHCR brings together its contractual parties or its executive committee, which meet each year in February, June and October. This coordination is exercised regularly, and all departments contribute to the effort. This way, everybody's voice is heard, and everyone's priorities are raised.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you, Ms. Godin.

We're out of time on that round, so I will go to Mr. Komarnicki for five minutes.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

I'm actually going to defer to Mr. Batters, who will then give the balance of the time, if there's any, back to me.

[Dave Batters, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

Mr. Chair, I'm going to ask a quick question and then defer the rest of my time to Mr. Komarnicki.

Through you, Mr. Chair, to the officials, thanks for appearing before us today.

I'm wondering what it would take if someone was referred by the UNHCR or someone had applied under the private sponsorship program.... If you're an Iraqi citizen fleeing that country because of the violence in that country, how would a visa officer determine that you weren't eligible for settlement? What I'm getting at is, how can you possibly be denied admission to this country if you're an Iraqi citizen and you were referred by UNHCR or you're applying privately?

[Bruce Scoffield]

Mr. Chair, regardless of how the case comes to our attention, whether it's the United Nations that ask us to look at it or whether it's a group in Canada that sponsors it, the law requires that visa officers make an independent assessment of whether or not the individual meets the eligibility criteria. For example, for a refugee, we determine whether that person has a well-founded fear of persecution based on one of the five grounds--political opinion, membership in a particular social group, religion, etc. In addition, a visa officer has to assess whether or not that person has a reasonable prospect of another durable solution; that is, can they be repatriated in the foreseeable future, or do they have a possibility of local integration? It's also possible in some cases that individuals have more than one citizenship, and to qualify under the law you have to have a fear of persecution in all of your countries of citizenship.

But beyond all of those criteria, as I mentioned earlier, there are other factors that the law requires be assessed. The officer must be satisfied that the refugee will, in a reasonable period of time, between three to five years after they arrive in the country, be able to support themselves. In addition, there is a fairly rigorous assessment of health, security, criminality, and other issues that could be of risk to Canadian society, to the Canadian public.

It's possible for any one of those grounds to be a basis for a refusal.

[Dave Batters, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

The figures I have in front of me indicate that an approximate acceptance rate of 80% exists for both government and privately sponsored refugees. So your response was a good one.

In the last category, in terms of health and safety, I can see how maybe some people would be rejected on that basis. Any Iraqi could make the case, though, legitimately, that whether it's persecution.... They fear suicide bombings in their country. They fear going out in the marketplaces. In the rest of the cases you spoke of, I could see no reason why these people would be refused admission to Canada.

All that being said, I'd just like to say I think the department is doing a great job, and certainly greater than its proportional share. Canada is doing greater than its share of carrying this weight.

I'm going to defer the rest of my time to Mr. Komarnicki.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

You have one minute and 15 seconds, Mr. Komarnicki.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

I'll hone in on one particular question.

Mr. Telegdi was talking about private sponsorship and how community groups and church organizations want to increase their sponsorship amount. I know that previously in the committee we heard about some of the problems with attempts made to get relatives or families through as refugees. Some of those issues have been sorted out. But that said, and along the lines that Mr. Batters was talking about, there are a good number of refugees who would easily qualify as refugees without many questions.

Is there anything negative that you see in terms of administrating or enlarging upon the sponsorship class to allow the community groups and the church groups that want to become involved in sponsoring refugees to say “Here's a pool you can draw from”? Do you see anything negative in doing that, or anything that would perhaps hinder that?

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Please give a brief answer.

[Micheline Aucoin]

The simple answer is no.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

That was three seconds, so I guess we'll just go on.

Thank you, Mr. Komarnicki.

We have two minutes. Ms. Beaumier, briefly.

[Colleen Beaumier, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

Thank you.

I'm wondering why it takes 17 months to process a refugee claim. Refugees are obviously in dire straits. They're living in refugee camps. When you're giving me the criteria for this and you're saying the officer can decide whether they will support themselves in five years, it sounds to me more like a regular immigration almost point system criteria they're using, and I don't find that acceptable. I don't find 17 months acceptable.

[Bruce Scoffield]

Certainly we recognize that we need to process refugee applications as quickly as we can. There are really two factors that influence the length of time it takes to finalize a case. One is the relationship between the number of applications that come in and the number of applications that we are allowed to finalize within the targets that are tabled in Parliament every year. When you have more applications coming in than you are allowed to finalize, inventories build up and cases are processed on a first in, first out basis, so it takes a certain amount of wait time in that situation.

The second factor that affects the processing times is the complexity of the issues that have to be dealt with. It is the case that for people from Iraq it's very often quite a complex process to assess their background, their security issues, and so on that may be relevant to them. The government takes that responsibility very seriously, and it takes the time it needs to make that background assessment.

Both of those factors can contribute to the length of time it takes to finalize any individual application.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

You can have one more brief question and a brief answer, and we'll have to cut it off there.

[Colleen Beaumier, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

Are you basically saying that the 17 months is to assess the criminality?

[Bruce Scoffield]

No, that's not what I said. I said there were two factors that affect, in this case--

[Colleen Beaumier, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

There should only be one.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Sorry, we are out of time.

On behalf of the committee, I want to thank you for coming here today. You have provided an awful lot of good information for us. I'm sure we'll be able to use that information when we're deliberating and writing our report. Thank you very much.

When the witnesses leave the table, I would invite the Canadian Council for Refugees to come forward, the Fraser Institute, Mr. Bissett, and Amnesty International. Come forward to the table, please.

We'll break for 30 seconds or a minute to give these people time.